Dealing with Death

Tricky_Niki · November 27, 2007, 04:29:35 PM

Jesster and I have a problem and we hope that someone here will be able to help.
Jessters grandmother has cancer and with her age and overall state of health the doctors don't think she can survive the treatment.
The problem is what do we tell our children ages 5 and 8 that will let them deal with the grief and fear without leading them to believe that there is a magic place where grandma is waiting to see them. And how do we keep other well intentioned family members from filling thier heads with fairy tales about life after death.

McQ · November 27, 2007, 10:59:00 PM

Quote from: "Tricky_Niki"Jesster and I have a problem and we hope that someone here will be able to help.
Jessters grandmother has cancer and with her age and overall state of health the doctors don't think she can survive the treatment.
The problem is what do we tell our children ages 5 and 8 that will let them deal with the grief and fear without leading them to believe that there is a magic place where grandma is waiting to see them. And how do we keep other well intentioned family members from filling thier heads with fairy tales about life after death.

Niki, this is a tough situation to deal with as a parent. Some things will be out of your control, such as what other well-meaning people tell your kids. Do your best to be honest with them in accordance with what you believe.

There is a very nice forum:

http://www.godlessgrief.com/phpbb/index ... d3a61e172c

Godless Grief, run by a terrific person, who may be of some help to you.

Also, feel free to PM me on this. I am not a doctor. However, I may have some contacts who may be helpful.

shoruke · November 27, 2007, 11:04:08 PM

Well, the fact is that there isn't any way to tell someone that young that someone is dying... however, things like "It'll all be okay" help. Explaining what death is and that it's necessary to all living things is something that I think parents need to do.

Whitney · November 28, 2007, 01:03:43 AM

I have never dealt with this situation but did take philosophy class focused on death and dying. Although we didn't go too in depth with children a strong point is that children of different ages grasp the idea of death differently. Young kids tend to view it as something temporary then grow into understanding it's permanent. I would guess that you will have to talk to the 5 year old differently than you will the 8 year old.

I know that's not much help...McQ's post info seems like it would be rather helpful.

I deal with grief by focusing on remembering the fun times I spent with that person...in a way the person does live on in memory; if you want to look at it that way. I'm not sure if a kid would be able to grieve in this manner though.

Tricky_Niki · November 28, 2007, 06:03:02 AM

Thanks for the advice. This is a new subject for us too and I'm really not sure how to handle it. It makes me really glad that so far we have kept the kids away from religion. I think that will make letting go of grandma easier for both of them.
I think for me giving up thinking that everyone we loved is in heaven waiting for us was the hardest part of letting go and I don't want my kids to suffer that. It was almost like losing them twice.
One more evil of religion I suppose

Godless Grief seems to be down right now but I will keep trying.
Thanks again it's nice to find people out there who don't think we are completely nuts.

Bella · November 28, 2007, 06:16:40 AM

Definately make sure that you tell the rest of the family what you are going to tell your children... and tell them to respect it. Honestly, losing people as a child seemed easier for me than now. I think it's easier for kids to grasp, "She's asleep now, but she had a beautiful life, loved you very much, and gave you your daddy" than for adults. I remember losing my grandparents when I was little (my dad's mom and dad... within months of each other, just from illness... that stuff about life-time mates really can be true). I cried, and I was sad... but I remember how it affected my father (and my mother... but my dad was the one crying all of the time) being infinately more important to me. I don't even remember what my religious mother told me about the after-life, I was concerned about the present state of my loved ones. I think it's most important that they aren't confused by people telling them different stories.

Actually, isn't that true with adults (or is it just because we are Athiest)? I remember a friend (well, he was more of a friend to my bf and friends... I didn't know him as well) died awhile ago. I was sad that he died, but it seemed so much more important to me that everyone who was crying had an arm around them... am I getting off subject? Sorry.

I guess I'm just trying to say that when you lose a loved one, it's important to be around OTHER loved ones to remind you that you're not alone... children and adults alike. I've always found that more comforting (whether I was a JW or Athiest) than "You will see them again... some day... but you dont' know when... and you may die first..."

bitter_sweet_symphony · November 28, 2007, 01:46:38 PM

QuoteI guess I'm just trying to say that when you lose a loved one, it's important to be around OTHER loved ones to remind you that you're not alone... children and adults alike. I've always found that more comforting (whether I was a JW or Athiest) than "You will see them again... some day... but you dont' know when... and you may die first..."

I agree completely. I remember when my father passed away, I wasn't really bothered about where he was. The fact that I wasn't going to see him again [in "this" life - I was a theist then] was all that mattered.

I personally think it isn't absolutely necessary to explain the differing views about death, when the children are upset. I think it would be better to wait till they aren't so upset. Or maybe you can try to talk to them about it now. See what questions they ask and try to answer them satisfactorily, without having others telling them about heaven and stuff.

Maybe there is no "perfect" way for dealing with death and similar things. Hope everything works out for you and your family.

SteveS · November 28, 2007, 03:45:27 PM

I've been following this conversation, but I don't really know what to add. This is a tough topic. I haven't had to deal with this with my kids yet, and I'm not really sure how I will.

One observation I will make, I don't think kids are always as fragile as we're afraid of them being. I think kids can be resilient. Just because a topic is emotionally distressful, I don't think it is going to 'damage' them in any way. Maybe the way to go is truthfulness and honesty, with a healthy dose of explanation that it is normal and understandable to be sad about death. Explain that you are very sad too, but that death is an unavoidable part of being alive in the first place?

About the family - eh, this one really puts me out. If I knew how to properly deal with the influence of family I'd probably be a much happier person. This is perhaps the greatest 'mystery' of life!

Best of luck to you,
Steve

rlrose328 · November 28, 2007, 04:26:40 PM

We had to deal with this two years ago when my dad died. My mom is very religious and while dad had great faith, he didn't go to church. He did have funeral paperwork all ready so he had chosen religious songs for his service and had chosen a Lutheran Pastor for the service as well.

My son was 5 then... and we just told him that Grandpa wasn't in pain anymore (he'd had heart problems for 3 years) and that he will live on in our memories. We have fond memories of him, plenty of pictures and videos we can watch when we miss him, but that he's gone.

My mom wasn't happy to hear us tell him this... she clings to her faith and her belief she'll see her mom, dad and husband again in heaven like a starving man will cling to his bag of Doritos, so she talked to the kid about heaven and god. Afterwards, we talked to him in PRIVATE about grandma's belief in god, our non-belief and how we believe when we die, we die, we're gone, and that's why it's important to be good to one another while we are alive.

Maybe because of all of that, the kid wasn't sad at all... and he can toss of "well Grandpa's dead" like he's saying it's sunny outside. It doesn't bother us... I mean, Grandpa IS dead. But I have to tell him to not say things like that around Grandma because it will upset her that he's so nonchalant about it.

I guess this doesn't help you at all. It's just my experience with this.

MommaSquid · November 28, 2007, 10:11:02 PM

Quote from: "rlrose328"Maybe because of all of that, the kid wasn't sad at all... and he can toss of "well Grandpa's dead" like he's saying it's sunny outside. It doesn't bother us... I mean, Grandpa IS dead. But I have to tell him to not say things like that around Grandma because it will upset her that he's so nonchalant about it.

I am sorry for your loss.

However, I think it's great that you explained to your son that grandpop is gone and not watching him from a cloud somewhere.

Let grandma hold onto her delusion if it helps her sleep at night, but you taught your son what YOU believe and that's what matters.

When he's older he can examine the two opinions and decide for himself which one makes more sense.

Tricky_Niki · November 30, 2007, 11:48:59 PM

So much wonderful advice. Hopefully when the time comes we wont forget all of it. Now I have another problem but will post that in another spot not really sure it belongs here.

rlrose328 · December 01, 2007, 04:21:29 AM

Quote from: "MommaSquid"I am sorry for your loss.

However, I think it's great that you explained to your son that grandpop is gone and not watching him from a cloud somewhere.

Let grandma hold onto her delusion if it helps her sleep at night, but you taught your son what YOU believe and that's what matters.

When he's older he can examine the two opinions and decide for himself which one makes more sense.

Thanks, Momma... I hope we've done the right thing by him by letting him listen to all sides and maybe choose when he's older. There's still a part of me that wants to sit him down and preach non-belief to him like THEY preach god to their kids... the indoctrinate, we don't... is that why there's fewer of us?

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread. :-)

Niki, I do hope you have gotten some good info here and are prepared. Just remember that kids are more intuitive than we give them credit for and honestly is always the best policy. They'll see through the crap in no time. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Oh... another thing I did was create a Tribute Album about Dad after he died using old and current photos. You can see it here: Dad's Tribute Album. My mom has the original, but whenever we visit her, we pull it out and go through it, the kid and I. I want him to remember his Grandpa and all the wonderful things he did and the great man he was, and words only tell half the story. It's full of memories and no religion. :-)

Tricky_Niki · December 01, 2007, 06:56:11 AM

I found something today while doing more research thought i would stick it in here , it may be of help to other parents here .

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/

Sounds like a wonderful book and i cant wait for my copy to get here.

BleedingOrchid · December 01, 2007, 03:58:28 PM

Quote from: "SteveS"I don't think kids are always as fragile as we're afraid of them being. I think kids can be resilient. Just because a topic is emotionally distressful, I don't think it is going to 'damage' them in any way. Maybe the way to go is truthfulness and honesty, with a healthy dose of explanation that it is normal and understandable to be sad about death. Explain that you are very sad too, but that death is an unavoidable part of being alive in the first place?

This is exactly the point that I was going to make. Kids are much stronger than given credit for. Treat them like young adults & they'll rise to the occasion. I would want to describe the physiological aspect of death so that they'll understand the body dies, but the memory of the loved on continues after death. To this day, I remember my grandfather & all of the good times we had together...no matter that he died when I was 16. Better to enjoy the things I had with him than to wait to fly up into the sky and visit with him again. Because we all know how realistic that is... *sigh*

Orchid

rlrose328 · December 01, 2007, 05:08:35 PM

Quote from: "Tricky_Niki"I found something today while doing more research thought i would stick it in here , it may be of help to other parents here .

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/

Sounds like a wonderful book and i cant wait for my copy to get here.

I'm on a Yahoo group called "Atheist Moms"... great group! Anyway, they talk about that book quite often. I haven't read it... but they highly recommend it.

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Dealing with Death