Life after death?

[boo_ya]

I understand that evolution has made me who I am today. I don’t doubt evolution for a second. However, I want a better understanding of this. I want to know what really makes someone who they are. I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am. How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe? Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place? Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.

[rlrose328]

Wow... I need more coffee before I attempt this one.  LOL!  :-)

[SteveS]

Hi boo_ya --- Personally, I think the answer to your question lies within the future explanatory power of the brain sciences.  I'm not sure if all the issues you address (save the last one about "something after death") have very satisfactory or complete answers at the current time.  But - I'm not a brain scientist, so maybe I'm just ignorant of the "state of the art".

I'm a tad confused with this statement:

I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence

I guess I would say that I can't find any reliable evidence that there is "something after death", so what evidence are you referring to?  Do you think there is compelling positive evidence of "something after death" existing?  If so - do you mind if I ask what?

(P.S. welcome to the forum - some members choose to post an introduction over in the Introductions folder to let the others know a little bit about them and their background)

[Will]

I dunno, I could offer you my explanation, but it's always going to be subjective when it comes to defining self. I suppose the easiest answer is "it just does," but it seems like you're looking for meaning. Personally, I require no meaning to life. I don't think it's particularly important where I draw the line of self as opposed to others.

Honestly? It's chance. It's just circumstance. There's all sorts of stuff after death, but you'll be dead so you won't experience it. Your body will shut down and start to decompose. Then you'll reenter the life cycle, where you're used as sustenance by a tree or something. There isn't a heaven or reincarnation, at least not in the traditional sense. I tend to think that my body being used to help a tree grow is quite poetic and beautiful, and I don't need any fantasy to bring me a sense of closure about life or to prepare me for death.

[SteveS]

I would be pleased if my constituent parts somehow became incorporated into the life of a dragonfly.  Mostly just because I think dragonflies are cool - maybe I should request to be buried in a swamp?  Ewwwww!

[Tom62]

Life after death? Well, I used to believe that reincarnation made more sense than ending up in a boring place full of boring angels playing boring instruments to boring people. Nowadys I'm a bit more sceptical, so I'll just wait and see what happens when the Grim Reaper comes to get me.

[Squid]

I understand that evolution has made me who I am today. I don’t doubt evolution for a second. However, I want a better understanding of this. I want to know what really makes someone who they are. I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am. How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe? Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place? Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.

It would take a very, very long time to simply relay the current knowledge about how the brain produces what we call "us".  The modern human brain is the product of millions of years of evolution and we've only been studying it for a fraction of that time.  This is not to say we don't know much about it.  The knowledge we have to day is colossal but there is always (and always will be) more to learn, this is the nature of science.

Now if you wish to focus on just consciousness studies, that would cut down on the massiveness of your question, not by a whole lot but some.  Or you could possibly look into how injury affects a person like the one case which is included in most texts - that of Phineas Gage.

To my knowledge there is no reason or need to appeal to some "unknown" or "outside" source in relation to what we as cognitive beings are and can do.

[jcm]

Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

I don't think that there really needs to be something more. There is tendency for people to believe that there is more to life because of the fear of death. I sometimes find it uneasy to think about death; however, death or not existing is kind of a natural state. Personally it is easy for me to think of things not existing. The idea of nothingness is rather comforting when I am tortured with what happens after I die. It is like trying to imagine what happened before you where born. To me, this is the same way of thinking about death.

[SteveS]

Hey jcm - didn't somebody famous answer this question in similiar fashion?  He said something like "before I was born I was dead for centuries, and it didn't bother me a bit?".

I will happily admit that I am far more worried about dying than about being dead.  If I got to choose, I'd rather not die until my children are financially independent.  But - its the final experience that sets my teeth to grinding.

[McQ]

Welcome, Boo ya. I had a good response all set for you, but it is too much like Squid's, so I'll just say hi instead for now. That handsome bastard* is always right on top of this stuff. I never get my answers in fast enough!



* Of course, it is entirely possible that his parents were married when he was born, so my bastard comment may be nullified completely.

[Mister Joy]

Know the feeling. My response would be along the lines of jcm's; I too find the idea of non-existance comforting. Ultimately, though, I don't think it's even possible to speculate upon what comes after you're dead OR what came before you were born, for that matter. Whatever it is, it's beyond our comprehension. You simply can't begin to make assumptions about what it feels like not to be a conscious, sentient, living creature... or should that be what it doesn't feel like? Cross that bridge when you come to it, says I.

boo_ya, are you interested in chaos theory? I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were but if you haven't read much about it already, then judging by the nature of this topic, you'd probably find it fascinating in the context of evolution & human psychology. I'd recommend Chaos by James Gleick (I just finished it the other day: a bloomin' excellent book).

[Asmodean Prime]

it obviouse to me that theres more to this than darwin we dont even understand the evolution of the universe yet .way i see this we all highly intelligent well evolvoed bacteria probly sounds grim but makes me feel lucky to be here to appreciate this well evolved world after all we humans only been here a short while so far but we changed it so much we find it hard to face the gravity of the question so most just go along with the easiest answers unquestioning and distrscted from reality. respect to those who question and a big fat mention to all those who pay attention lol

[Will]

Hey jcm - didn't somebody famous answer this question in similiar fashion?  He said something like "before I was born I was dead for centuries, and it didn't bother me a bit?".

That's so awesome I'm totally going to rip it off. Awesome.

[SteveS]

I'll have to try to find where I read this - I'm sure I got it out of one of the books in my atheist collection - can't remember which one though (George Smith, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins,  :?  )

[pjkeeley]

Actually I think it may have been Oscar Wilde who originally said that.

Also, one thing about the whole idea of reincarnation as opposed to an afterlife: even if it's true, I personally don't find it a very comforting theory, if that's what you're looking for. Don't we tend to associate our "being" with our identity, which relies a lot on our capacity for memory? If the idea is that we reincarnate as a different person with no memory of who we were before, isn't that more or less the same thing as dying forever? It's like going over the life story of a person with amnesia. From an outsider's perspective her life before and after the onset of amnesia seems to belong to the same person, but to the patient with amnesia, it's as if those things before the amnesia happened to someone else.

I think what brain science will find, and what it seems to have revealed so far, is that we don't actually exist, at least not in the way we think we do. Being is an illusion. It's pretty fascinating though. It's all a bit zen.