leave the dark side?!

tacoma_kyle · June 09, 2007, 08:47:33 AM

Yeah I was just curious if you think a actual atheist can even change their views (see the light! haha) without suffereing brain-damage first or soemthin along the lines. I'm pretty sure about everyone here that claims to be a atheist is a solid one. Unlike the 'I use to be atheist' book-writers.

McQ · June 09, 2007, 02:52:07 PM

I never say, "Never". For certain, people can change their opinions, and their belief systems at any time in life. Yes, a hard-core atheist can change her mind and become spiritual. They have before. And atheists can't fall back on the argument that fundies use in reverse by saying that the person wasn't a "real" atheist if she changed her mind.

There are all kinds of reasons that people change philosophical, religious, skeptical, or other beliefs. Often times it's fear. Fear of death, fear of social exclusion, fear of losing a loved one...could be anything.

I believe 100% right now that my stance as a naturalist is the most accurate way of answering the questions of who we are and where we came from. I don't have a need for a spiritual (i.e. god) belief. I cannot say that my views will never change. I believe they won't but I don't know that with certainty.

So, my vote is YES. An atheist can change views.

Whitney · June 09, 2007, 04:38:08 PM

An "actual" atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in god. Ya, someone who doesn't believe in a god can certainly believe in one later. Even a person who doesn't believe for very rational reasons may rationalize belief at a later time in his or her life.

As for can an atheist start believing in the supernatural...sure, some do anyway.

Will · June 09, 2007, 06:13:11 PM

Humanism is about allowing your philosophy to change as you take in and process new information. We don't have a 2000 year old, unchanging book after all.

If, somehow, I were to come across conclusive proof of something supernatural (though I'd do everything I could to find a reasonable explanation)...actually I'd probably try to fit it into science, thus making it not supernatural. Sorry, supernatural, you're not real.

SteveS · June 10, 2007, 05:47:32 PM

Yeah, I think anyone can change their mind. Personally, if there were ever some irrefutable evidence come to light in favor of a god (evidence that stands up to scrutiny), I'm fairly certain I would change my mind. In other words my atheism isn't due to an emotional investment in defining myself as an atheist, but rather as a result of thought, of consideration of the world, nature, etc. At least, I think so :wink: . But I'd certainly like to reserve the right to change my mind.

The fact that people can change their views is one of the reasons I feel so strongly about tolerance of differing views. In my George Smith book, he quotes Thomas Paine at the start of chapter 1 with the apropos words:

Quote from: "Thomas Paine"... I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it.

While I don't realistically foresee myself changing my opinion on this topic, this statement never-the-less makes a whole lot of sense to me.

tacoma_kyle · June 10, 2007, 07:38:32 PM

My post was a little foolishly worded, I have to say.

But I wasn't specifically talking about in a hypothetical...god came down, slapped me and said 'believe in me now, bitch'...or somethin. Like on a normal day like today, not much ahs changed really.

Thats kinda what I was talking about, but its still kinda foggy.

skeptigirl · June 12, 2007, 12:34:59 AM

Have a near death experience on the anesthetic ketamine and hallucinate you are in Hell instead of Heaven and you might change your beliefs if you didn't understand the side effects of ketamine.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... rthingsboo

I can't be sure this is the same guy who had the ketamine but I'm pretty sure it is. He was on a talk show and he told his whole story then out came the supposedly minor detail ketamine was the anesthetic used. I knew right away what really happened here.

ketamine

It causes more bad trips than good ones, I suggest you avoid it.

McQ · June 12, 2007, 12:54:32 AM

Quote from: "skeptigirl"Have a near death experience on the anesthetic ketamine and hallucinate you are in Hell instead of Heaven and you might change your beliefs if you didn't understand the side effects of ketamine.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... rthingsboo

I can't be sure this is the same guy who had the ketamine but I'm pretty sure it is. He was on a talk show and he told his whole story then out came the supposedly minor detail ketamine was the anesthetic used. I knew right away what really happened here.

ketamine

It causes more bad trips than good ones, I suggest you avoid it.

Geez! How dare you impune god's saving grace by suggesting that an artificial drug caused this man's miracle! :roll:

SteveS · June 12, 2007, 03:51:29 AM

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"My post was a little foolishly worded, I have to say.

I don't think so, man. I think we're just seeing some honestly in the answers. Although, with the clarification, I really can't see myself changing my mind if nothing new came to light (i.e. I don't go crazy, or take ketamine). I do try to understand the theist's arguments, so I'm always considering, but.....unless a new theist pops up with a really convincing argument --- seems like I've heard a lot of arguments, some of them have made me think, some have gotten me confused, but none have ever really given me cause to believe in a god. I really can't envision myself changing my mind unless something extraordinary happened.

I wonder how a forum of religious believers would answer this same question? Damn, now I'm curious.....

donkeyhoty · June 14, 2007, 09:09:14 AM

Didn't hallucinogens and religious visions come up on another thread? I'll answer my own question and say yes.

So, drugs and insanity can cause religious experiences... what's my point? I don't have one, except drugs are cool, stay in school.

That reminds me of an anecdote I heard: A school gave out "It's Not Cool to Do Drugs" pencils. The kids, being the precocious whippersnappers they were, sharpened and altered them so as to read, "It's Cool to Do Drugs", "Cool to Do Drugs", and finally, "Do Drugs".

Eclecticsaturn · June 17, 2007, 08:12:39 AM

i think that if you truely are an atheist then i dont think that you could go de-evolve and start thinking that stuff is real. Your not gunna just start thinking santa is real right? I think thatpeople that say that they were atheist and now they believe, i think they are just saying that to share commonalities with the other atheists or agnostics to try to convert then to fairy tales. If anything thing these "former atheists" were actually agnostics possibly sitting a little more on the atheist side of the fence for a little longer. I again just dont think a true atheist could change their belief like that. now of course the disclaimer, yes of course it is possible i just dont see it being the case.

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leave the dark side?!