'Stop feminising our schools - our boys are suffering'

[notself]

Perhaps in an attempt to make boys "behave", teacher are too rigid with girls as well.  Perhaps if girls and boys were segregated by sex, the girls would do even better in school particularly in math and science.

[Dretlin]

I am perfectly well aware that the article was specified toward schools In the UK and not the US. Despite having attended a public school, I know the difference between an "S" and a "K". However, the issues and questions I raise are just as relevant in the UK as they are in the US. With similar cultures (fairly similar. yes, i know they aren't identical), similar changes in society since the 50s, the same functional structure of schooling, etc, we can find similar trends in schooling.

check out this article. http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/fem-schools.html Btw, i think you might enlightened to know that Rush Limbaugh likes to touch on this subject as well.

It's not strictly a British phenomenon. The issue is being raised in other counties as well. And I don't think it's out of the question to consider that the basic structure of public schools will do this.

Anyways, I still raise my main point that schools have likely not declined in their quality of educating boys. It is likely just as bad, if not better, as it was during the 50s. I am supposing that there is a possibility that girls, given the proper social environment, do better than boys because they are better at sitting and being quite than boys but aren't as condescended to or oppressed as they were in the 50s.

The UK and US are not as similar as you believe, it is naive to think so. The reason boys did better in the past was because the teaching was hands on and practical, unlike today.

When I am mentioning the 1950s, I clearly stated I am talking about the UK school system and not any other. And I am not discussing that matter outside the UK, I really made this perfectly clear. As that is not where my opinion, experience or care is. Pushing the point of American schooling has nothing to do with my original post.

[PoopShoot]

What a great way to keep the conversation inclusive.

[Dretlin]

What a great way to keep the conversation inclusive.

I want to make a clear distinction between British and American schools. Pushing the point that American and British are schools similar purely on a cultural basis, is simply is not true.

I would like to apologize to Intercourseman72 if my earlier post is well read with a harsh tone.

[Intercourseman72]

@Dretlin
I am not advancing that American and British schools are similar because their cultures are similar necessarily. They simply have the same functional educational system and pedagogy and that leads me to think that they are fairly similar school systems.

I don't mind harsh tones btw(not to say that you were harsh), but I would like some evidence that British schools during the 1950s were actually more hands-on than they are or during the 70s when they used that tick-box whatever. I just can't see the days of caning and other corporal punishment as fostering better learning environments for boys. Even if education was somehow more hands-on during the 50s, how can we know that it benefits girls while hindering boys? It is likely that most boys tend to want to move and learn more physically according to research, but is there enough evidence to indicate that British schools used to nurture boys to such a degree that it would make a significant difference between their success in school versus the success of girls? Or is it possible that there are other things involved that could explain the current disparity?

I know that I don't have as much knowledge as a Briton would about British education (especially throughout the decades) but I still don't see why my questions can't have a place in this discussion. To advance that boys did better in the past because of a significant difference in teaching methods requires evidence. Also, a strong conjecture that a significant change in performance between boys and girls since the 1950s requires strong evidence that girls would thrive less than boys during the 1950s and more now. I don't rule out this conjecture, I would just like some convincing evidence. It may be self-evident to Brits, but it's not so obvious to me and I wouldn't mind if I could get some historical records on the 1950s teaching methods in British schools to formulate an opinion pertaining to this issue.

[Sophus]

What a great way to keep the conversation inclusive.

I want to make a clear distinction between British and American schools. Pushing the point that American and British are schools similar purely on a cultural basis, is simply is not true.

Yeah, I don't think this is really a problem in America. Anyone disagree?

[Intercourseman72]

What is not a problem in america? Schools feminizing boys? It is to many people. Among those people are Rush Limbaugh of course. But at any rate, the concerns over education in the US do involve the inappropriate treatment of boys.

[Tank]

What is not a problem in america? Schools feminizing boys? It is to many people. Among those people are Rush Limbaugh of course. But at any rate, the concerns over education in the US do involve the inappropriate treatment of boys.

The issue of 'feminisation of schools' is not the same as 'feminisation of boys', although there may be a linkage that is not directly the point. It would be perfectly acceptable to have the vast majority of teachers and staff in a school of one gender, either gender. The issue is training, understanding the issues effecting the proper development of both genders and pupils and as individuals.

There is absolutly positive/negative easy answer to the education of children. What does happen all to often is that in the desire to fix one thing eg poor girls performance, the solutions fix the apparent problem but overall do more harm than good to the whole cohort of kids in the system. While the welfare of the kids is always the point of the process the process is poor and the kids suffer for that. Political dogma rather than the need for good pastoral care and teaching methods tend to end up dictating policy.

If you want a good, read effective, educational model go look at Sweden. Now the the problem is that the Swedish educational system is a product of the Swedish culture, so you can't just transplant Swedish processes into a US or UK setting. However it does shed light on the way one process can benefit children better than another.

[Dretlin]

What is not a problem in america? Schools feminizing boys? It is to many people. Among those people are Rush Limbaugh of course. But at any rate, the concerns over education in the US do involve the inappropriate treatment of boys.

The issue of 'feminisation of schools' is not the same as 'feminisation of boys', although there may be a linkage that is not directly the point. It would be perfectly acceptable to have the vast majority of teachers and staff in a school of one gender, either gender. The issue is training, understanding the issues effecting the proper development of both genders and pupils and as individuals.

There is absolutly positive/negative easy answer to the education of children. What does happen all to often is that in the desire to fix one thing eg poor girls performance, the solutions fix the apparent problem but overall do more harm than good to the whole cohort of kids in the system. While the welfare of the kids is always the point of the process the process is poor and the kids suffer for that. Political dogma rather than the need for good pastoral care and teaching methods tend to end up dictating policy.

If you want a good, read effective, educational model go look at Sweden. Now the the problem is that the Swedish educational system is a product of the Swedish culture, so you can't just transplant Swedish processes into a US or UK setting. However it does shed light on the way one process can benefit children better than another.

Do they have mixed gender schools?

[Tank]

@Dretlin

Yes they do. And they have mixed ages as well so the older kids mix with the younger kids during lessons. Which is exactly what would happen in a village/tribal setting while we were evolving. The older kids are afforded responsibility while the younger kids are constantly exposed to example behaviour. The children grow up in a much more natural social environment than they do in most other educational systems.

[Dretlin]

Mixed ages is something I had not considered. I remember having monitors who were Prep 7 pupils who looked after the younger children, to an extent. It seemed more a practice in responsibility than anything else.

Maybe I have given it too little credit and attention.

[Zklinedi]

Schools aren't feminising boys, it's just a by-product of a majority of the teachers being female, and as a young boy you have to learn to deal with female teachers. Just as a kid who grows up with 3 sisters and a mom would seem more effeminate than a boy who grew up with 3 brothers and no mother. NO KNITTING ON THE KITCHEN TABLE...BUT MOM IT'S THURSDAY!

[Intercourseman72]

http://www.ted.com/talks/charles_leadbe ... ation.html

TED has a pretty good archive of education videos. Something that is rarely brought up is how we approach getting kids into the class rooms. For most OECD nations, school is compulsory rather than voluntary. Again, the cultures and circumstances of countries that use a purely voluntary/entrepreneurial are radically different from countries like Canada, US, US and certainly differ much more than the Swedish environment. However, if a system that is not institutionally inert to change is adopted, I'd think one of the easiest things to take care of right away is an excessively feminine school environment for boys.

I know in the US there are democratic schools where the kids basically learn at their own leisure and all ages are mixed, my nephew is attending this one school that is quasi-Monessori(pretty expensive), and even charter schools tend to be fairly innovative despite administrative incompetence. Also, there is the online Khan Academy who I think everyone should check out although he can't be considered a hands-on advocate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRf6XiEZ ... r_embedded