What do atheists claim to know nothing about?

[Whitney]

I am curious, according to what I have just read, atheists just have no belief in god(s), what do you understand by god(s) which you don't believe in?

Right....

A theist is someone who believes in a god.  An atheist is someone who does not believe in a god.

God is generally understood to be a being/entity which created all that exists.

There are atheistic religions...such as some forms of Buddhism...however, most self-identified atheists do not follow a religion.

[Yrreg]

Why if at all is it important to atheists or to people who are atheists or call themselves atheists to not believe in god(s)?

But I really like to obtain in brief words what atheists understand by god(s).

Whitney writes:

God is generally understood to be a being/entity which created all that exists.

Yes I agree with your concept of God, that is also my concept of God.

So, just only as regards the concept of God, may I propose that for this thread we can say that the concept of God that really matters for people who believe in God, namely, theists, and atheists who don't believe in God, the concept of God is as follows:

God is the maker of everything in the whole totality of existence including the physical universe, and the author of the scheme of intelligent order prevailing in the whole totality of existence as described.

That is the concept of God that matters to theists.

Since atheists don't believe in god(s), that must be the number one concept of God that they don't believe in.


My question to atheists is why is it important to you to not believe in that kind of a God?




Yrreg

[Whitney]

My question to atheists is why is it important to you to not believe in that kind of a God?

Because it would be dishonest to claim belief if we didn't believe.  I don't quite understand your question.

[Tanker]

\
My question to atheists is why is it important to you to not believe in that kind of a God?

It's not "important" it just is. How about this, Why is it importantant to you to not believe in Sana Clause? The most likly answer is it's not important you just don't believe. Well thats how it is for atheists and a god, we just don't.

[MrWizard]

Wait, so your saying Santa...doesn't exist? *sob*


Seriously though, it is important for me to separate myself from being a believer. First of all I do not want to falsely claim belief, secondly faith based belief structures are harming and I want no correlation between faith and myself.

[skurry]

I think its important because I think most atheist are ostracized without reason. Automatically there are assumptions made about a person, when in reality atheists are just the same and just as different as everyone else. I think atheists come together because, like anyone, enjoy people that can find a common ground. In addition to that, atheists need a voice to keep religion from controlling society as a whole (my perspective, no necessarily every atheists or agnostics). I am a FIRM believer of the separation of church and state, and I think those who think that need to voice that.

But to answer your question in another way; read up on Russel's Teapot.

[Yrreg]

Of course it is important to you to be honest about your not believing in God.

But if no one is asking you about your belief or non-belief in God, why do you feel that you have to put up a public stand about your non-belief in God?

You will ask me why I have to put up a public stand about my being a theist, and I will tell you that as a matter of fact I don't put up a public stand about my being a theist, but I do engage in going to a Christian church service.

What I mean is why you have to join an atheist forum to talk about your being a non-believer in God, and also answer questions from people like myself, who enjoy inquiring why people believe or don't believe in some particular things.

I understand that it is because you need to get together with fellow atheists for mutual reinforcement, and because you feel that you are being discriminated against in society.

Can you be specific why you are being discriminated against in society, and wherefore you must unite for a common concerted effort to fight discrimination?




Yrreg

[skurry]

What I mean is why you have to join an atheist forum to talk about your being a non-believer in God, and also answer questions from people like myself, who enjoy inquiring why people believe or don't believe in some particular things.

Yrreg

Are there christian forums? Are there World of Warcraft forums? Are there Democrat forums? Are there science forums?

But if no one is asking you about your belief or non-belief in God, why do you feel that you have to put up a public stand about your non-belief in God?

For one, this is an atheism forum and you came here asking questions. We kindly oblige to have an open discussion. However, have you seen the public displays of religion in our culture? People trying to mix religion and politics? People angry that a billboard states that atheists are not alone, yet religion billboards are all over the place, some threatening those who don't follow them with "Hell"? People saying a war was "God's will", and letting thousands of innocent people die? This is why I think people "like us" need to come together. Atheists don't take nearly as strong of a public stand as theists.

For me religion is a step backwards. It stops research in science, it obscures peoples views, and brainwashes people. It brainwashes people not just in a religious sense but also in the sense that they will follow whatever their priests or rabbis or pope or whoever else, no matter what. The pope just told people in Africa not to use condoms. This to me is the equivalent of genocide, this is a country that has a serious problem with AIDS and he's telling them to go bareback?! That is sick. That is why I think I need a voice of opinion. However do not use my view as the same as everyone else here. As I have stated before, atheists only have one thing in common.

I hope you don't shrug off some suggestions or comments of this page, if you are truly open to understanding. If you would like to have true understanding, read some books. Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins are good authors who could give you some perspective. Perhaps browse through the pages here and you'll reach some understanding of "our" position. So far, in my short time on here,  I think everyone here are very nice, well rounded, members of society.

[Squid]

Can you be specific why you are being discriminated against in society, and wherefore you must unite for a common concerted effort to fight discrimination?

A quick example, in my own home state, by law, I cannot hold a public office.  But most don't consider it to be any kind of discrimination.

[Tanker]

Of course it is important to you to be honest about your not believing in God.

But if no one is asking you about your belief or non-belief in God, why do you feel that you have to put up a public stand about your non-belief in God?

You will ask me why I have to put up a public stand about my being a theist, and I will tell you that as a matter of fact I don't put up a public stand about my being a theist, but I do engage in going to a Christian church service.

What I mean is why you have to join an atheist forum to talk about your being a non-believer in God, and also answer questions from people like myself, who enjoy inquiring why people believe or don't believe in some particular things.

I understand that it is because you need to get together with fellow atheists for mutual reinforcement, and because you feel that you are being discriminated against in society.

Can you be specific why you are being discriminated against in society, and wherefore you must unite for a common concerted effort to fight discrimination?




Yrreg

If you can ask and answer your own question I don't understand what you're asking. I'm also unsue of your use of "public stand" do you mean literal or somehow metphorical?

Anyone trying to pass religious based legislation or rules, notabley Christ based in America, is setting up a system that is discrimintory to all non belivers.

If you look through this forum or others like it you will find MANY cases of discrimination against atheists.

[McQ]

My hope is that the syntax in this thread will improve. It is so difficult to understand a person who uses litotes all the time.     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes

[PipeBox]

Was wondering about that, too, McQ.

So I just wandered in here.  Why do I say we don't know anything about the beginning of the universe?  We don't even know when it or if began!  We can say, with high certainty, when the Big Bang happened, but not how long the universe might have existed in an uninflated state.  We don't know if perhaps the universe has been collapsing and bouncing back for all eternity.  We don't know if this universe was created by a collision of two branes in an infinite sea of them.  We don't know if the universe was a quantum foam that experienced cosmic inflation and thermal energy dump when a scalar body of energy at the Planck density randomly popped into existence in it.  We don't even know if the beginning was a causal event, because it turns out time is not a line, but that there is a second dimension which may grant causal freedom.  We do not know if our universe was created in another universe with completely disparate properties.  We do not know we aren't running on a computer simulation run by the Omega Computer (check out Tippler's Omega Point Theory sometime).  Finally, we don't know if the universe was made by a god or many gods, and we don't know the feature set of whoever made it in any event.  An infinite amount of deities may have created the universe, and failing all, the best I can say, even if I knew that it was created by a deity, somehow, is that some deity exists.  What ability do I have to tell you anything of a god?  Can I describe its method of creation?  Was it supernatural?  How do you know?

We don't know.  You're kidding yourself if you think you have any reason, outside of ignorance and personal preference, to hold a vague conception of some deist god.  You wouldn't know its motive (to inflict as much pain as possible?), its methods (quantum scalar energy insertion?), or, indeed, even whether it exists (did it ever? did it kill itself? does it not yet exist but will be created by us so that it can create the universe through an uncaused event?).  I respect your seemingly rational theism, but I don't take any of these possibilities as a truth, not yet.  Do you want me to say you're possibly right that some god created the universe?  Sure, it's entirely possible you're right.  Do you want me to believe you are right?  Why should I do that?  What evidence can you offer me favoring your possibility as anything more than just another possibility?

[skurry]

Was wondering about that, too, McQ.

So I just wandered in here.  Why do I say we don't know anything about the beginning of the universe?  We don't even know when it or if began!  We can say, with high certainty, when the Big Bang happened, but not how long the universe might have existed in an uninflated state.  We don't know if perhaps the universe has been collapsing and bouncing back for all eternity.  We don't know if this universe was created by a collision of two branes in an infinite sea of them.  We don't know if the universe was a quantum foam that experienced cosmic inflation and thermal energy dump when a scalar body of energy at the Planck density randomly popped into existence in it.  We don't even know if the beginning was a causal event, because it turns out time is not a line, but that there is a second dimension which may grant causal freedom...

You have just become my favorite person here. I did the "..." for obvious reasons. I guess I'm an agnostic atheist (still leaning waaay towards "no") because physics has so many suprises. However, I will hold the same point as I did when I was catholic, if there was a god, he is an unconcious god. One incabable of interjecting in events or having a voice in humanity, nor would he care. And if there was god who was judgemental, he wouldn't care if I believed him or not, only that I did good. If I am an atheist, he wouldn't care, he would only desire that I am good to others. That is why I think the bible is BS! The Bible portrays a selfish god who needs worship and praise! A real god would not need that! He/She would just be happy knowing people did good. Skurry is drunk.... real drunk, for that I apologize.  

[Heretical Rants]

It is so difficult to understand a person who uses litotes all the time.  roflol

[PipeBox]

You have just become my favorite person here. I did the "..." for obvious reasons. I guess I'm an agnostic atheist (still leaning waaay towards "no") because physics has so many suprises. However, I will hold the same point as I did when I was catholic, if there was a god, he is an unconcious god. One incabable of interjecting in events or having a voice in humanity, nor would he care. And if there was god who was judgemental, he wouldn't care if I believed him or not, only that I did good. If I am an atheist, he wouldn't care, he would only desire that I am good to others. That is why I think the bible is BS! The Bible portrays a selfish god who needs worship and praise! A real god would not need that! He/She would just be happy knowing people did good. Skurry is drunk.... real drunk, for that I apologize.  

Real drunk, perhaps, but you're not wrong.  The vanity of the Christian Jehova is a strange thing.  Its pet peeve is people not believing in it/its word/its son when its sole method of communication is a barely-relevant bronze age text and the same gut feeling that leads people seek out Krishna and Allah for.  However, I'm not sure if Yrreg believes in the petty gods of religion, the equally strange, selectively enlightening gods of the east, a deist god, or his own original conception.