Descent to Nihilism

[JP]

Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.

How do you avoid the despair of a Samuel Beckett?


"The horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has developed from the mind of lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust the conviction of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

- Charles Darwin, 1881

[McQ]

Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.

How do you avoid the despair of a Samuel Beckett?


"The horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has developed from the mind of lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust the conviction of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

- Charles Darwin, 1881

Welcome JP.

Why not go into the nihilistic abyss? I don't think it has to lead to despair.

Now pass me the Gin, and put on the Harry Chapin Album.  :wink:

[JP]

Welcome JP.

Why not go into the nihilistic abyss? I don't think it has to lead to despair.

Now pass me the Gin, and put on the Harry Chapin Album.  :wink:

Hi McQ, thanks for the welcome. Since you seem to affirm the nihilistic destination of atheism rather than deny it, why do atheists go to the bother of creating websites and forums? Since rationality is meaningless, why not hit the Gin instead?

[Faylen]

Atheism is not a prelude to nihilism.  I'd say most of us think that being alive is a pretty cool and wonderful thing.  I don't see theists becoming nihilists because they don't believe in Allah, or Brahma, or Odin, or Zeus, so why should an atheist?  For myself, the removal of the fear of the unknown lifted a giant emotional weight, and made it so much easier to enjoy every moment of this one life I've been granted.  No putting things off for the next incarnation, no worrying that something done inadvertently will propel me into an eternal abyss of suffering. . .all that trepidation is gone.  In fact, realizing that this was a one-shot deal helped me quit drinking.  Without a program or anything.  Go figure.

[McQ]

Welcome JP.

Why not go into the nihilistic abyss? I don't think it has to lead to despair.

Now pass me the Gin, and put on the Harry Chapin Album.  :wink:

Hi McQ, thanks for the welcome. Since you seem to affirm the nihilistic destination of atheism rather than deny it, why do atheists go to the bother of creating websites and forums? Since rationality is meaningless, why not hit the Gin instead?

JP, one, I am not a nihilist. Two, I didn't affirm the destination of atheism as nihilism. I said, "Why not go into the nihilistic abyss?" It was a statement to put forth the option for some people to do so. The sentence after that shows that I was being tongue in cheek about it.

I also don't answer for all atheists and why they make websites and forums. Do you have some problem with atheist websites and forums? Are you sorry they exist? I'm not sure I follow your whole message.

[McQ]

Atheism is not a prelude to nihilism.  I'd say most of us think that being alive is a pretty cool and wonderful thing.  I don't see theists becoming nihilists because they don't believe in Allah, or Brahma, or Odin, or Zeus, so why should an atheist?  For myself, the removal of the fear of the unknown lifted a giant emotional weight, and made it so much easier to enjoy every moment of this one life I've been granted.  No putting things off for the next incarnation, no worrying that something done inadvertently will propel me into an eternal abyss of suffering. . .all that trepidation is gone.  In fact, realizing that this was a one-shot deal helped me quit drinking.  Without a program or anything.  Go figure.

I would echo this sentiment as well. Although I do agree with some aspects of the definition of nihilism ("...the world, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose...) in the broad sense of the entire Universe vs. homo sapiens only.

I don't believe that the Universe owes us any explanation for its or our existence, or any explanation of the meaning of life, matter, laws of physics, etc. It just is, and I'm happy with that.

That does not mean I'm not for trying to understand the way everything works, or how it came into being. That's the pursuit I find worthwhile.

[donkeyhoty]

generally speaking why, as a christian or whatever religion you may be, do you not go out and kill all the non-believers that you can't trick into converting?

Your generalization is laughable at best.  Do you actually believe morality is a concept created by religion, especially the Abrahamic religions?

Some non-deity philosophical belief systems you should look into that have a moral code, as well as an ethical code, include Confucianism, Stoicism, and Humanism.

I also ask if you believe that the Abrahamic religions are completely moral?  And do I really need to list reasons why they are not?

[McQ]

generally speaking why, as a christian or whatever religion you may be, do you not go out and kill all the non-believers that you can't trick into converting?

Your generalization is laughable at best.  Do you actually believe morality is a concept created by religion, especially the Abrahamic religions?

Some non-deity philosophical belief systems you should look into that have a moral code, as well as an ethical code, include Confucianism, Stoicism, and Humanism.

I also ask if you believe that the Abrahamic religions are completely moral?  And do I really need to list reasons why they are not?

Whom are you addressing?

[donkeyhoty]

Whom are you addressing?

obviously, JP, the original poster.  I think we're pretty clear as to who believes in god on this post.

[McQ]

Whom are you addressing?

obviously, JP, the original poster.  I think we're pretty clear as to who believes in god on this post.

I thought that's who you meant, but wanted to be clear. Thanks.

[Squid]

Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.

On the contrary - it makes the life we have the most precious thing there is.  Something to be enjoyed and take active pleasure in experiencing.

[Marke]

I always think that those that ask the nihilism question are having a problem with scale.
A particle physicist would tell you that the desk in front of you is almost all empty space. Do we sit around worrying about that? No, at the scale we live at the desk is perfectly solid.
Now, the universe may have no meaning at the ultimate scale, but at the scale we live at it has tons of meaning. Just because the sun will explode in a few million years does not mean we can not find meaning in this day.

[joeactor]

I dunno about you all, but I'm ready for some chewing gum:



... from my favorite oddball company:
http://www.mcphee.com/items/11505.html

[Faylen]

Love it!  (And so nice to see after arguing with nihilists on AN!)

Archie McPhee catalogue?

[joeactor]

Archie McPhee catalogue?

Oh yeah... they're a hoot-n-a-half!

Where else can you buy a rubber chicken, a chair shaped like a hand, and a pair of wind-up walking lederhosen?
(plus, there's a new product coming out soon featuring my voice...)

/end thread-jack
//slashies
///wheee!