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Does Humanism count as spiritual?

Started by AlP, February 11, 2009, 04:48:57 AM

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AlP

I recently became a member of the American Humanist Association. The reason I did it was because I wanted to be part of what christians might call a "fellowship". I also like their magazine. I read the Humanist Manifesto and decided I mostly agreed with it and that it was compatible with my particular beliefs and non-beliefs. I'm quite happy with that choice.

Anyway, this is what I would like to ask. Often people, upon learning that I am not religious (I'm an atheist), then ask me if I am "spiritual". To be honest I have no idea what that even means. I don't believe in "spirits" for sure but I suspect that isn't what people usually mean by "spiritual". So my first question is, what does spiritual mean to you?

Now my dilemma... Consider an online dating site. In the profile section, these sites will often have a drop down where you can state your religious beliefs. The ones that might be relevant to me are "not specified", "atheist", "non-religious" and "spiritual but not religious". The first three are no brainers. I can honestly select any one of them. The fourth one adds spirituality to the mix. This is where things get messy for me. It is an unfortunate truth that a lot of people associate religion with unrelated things such as morality. And I am certainly a moral person (I know that because I used to be a nihilist). I don't want people to assume that I am not a moral person just because I chose, say, "not specified".

So, since I've never seen Humanism listed as a choice of religion (nor should it be - it isn't a religion), would I be being honest if I chose "spiritual but not religious"? To me it would mean "moral and not religious".
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

curiosityandthecat

The entire concept of "spirituality" can be boiled down to this: you have these feelings (which can be easily explained by scientific means) that you can't explain without opening a book.

Sorry, but that's what it really means.

So, no, Humanism is not spiritual. Idiocy is spiritual. Christianity is spiritual. Rasta is spiritual. It's all crap. What you need to remember is that "Spiritual but not religious" means, to the majority of Christians (and this is an assumption on my part, but I think it's a fairly safe one) that you believe in God, but you just don't go to church.

Once again, it's crap.
-Curio

Kyuuketsuki

Quote from: "AlP"Does Humanism count as spiritual?

Nope :)

Kyu
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AlP

Okay agreed Humanism is not "spiritual". But I'll leave my profile as "spiritual but not religious" because I think it's in my benefit to do so. People living here in the US are predominantly religious and I don't want to be disadvantaged by that.

Is nobody going to chastise me for claiming "I am certainly a moral person"? What does that even mean? :hide:
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

LARA

Any way to contact the site and make the polite suggestion they add "Humanism" as an option?  :lol: That would solve the problem outright, I would think.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
                                                                                                                    -Winston Smith, protagonist of 1984 by George Orwell

newblueradio

Quote from: "LARA"Any way to contact the site and make the polite suggestion they add "Humanism" as an option?  :lol: That would solve the problem outright, I would think.

I personally would hate to see that.  I'm not a Humanist, but I would certainly hate for the assocation between atheist or Humanist and religion to ever be made, at any place, at any time.

gwyn428

"Spiritual" to me implies that the person is involved in some level or form of mysticism. Have you read any poetry by Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi? That is spiritual literature.

I guess that metaphorically speaking, as a Humanist, I am spiritual in the sense that I am deeply touched by the beauty of the human experience. Consider reading what I mean by this...

QuoteAs a Humanist, I understand that my life is a human experience. I find beauty in human existence and this beauty is the closest thing that we have to "spirituality." Prophets and messengers write down Bibles, Korans, and Gitas that many people adore, but I give my adorations to the secular literature of great authors, some of whom significantly influenced the field of literature. While the mystic meditates on a mantra, I immerse myself in the great music created by talented human beings; I give my ears to wonderful sounds that give me listening experiences that are joyful, passionate, and soothing. While the prophet thinks he sees angels, I am held still when I view the visual art created by talented human beings. Paintings, sculptures, and other artful creations can do more than just speak words and evoke emotions; they can be awe-inspiring. While the whirling dervish feels he has lost himself in his god, I sometimes feel the same but with human beings. I look to a human being to be my beloved, the one whom I reflect on, and the one whom I am devoted to. Mystics, prophets, and whirling dervishes say that their invisible gods are beautiful, but I find human beings, whom are easily seen, to be beautiful in many ways and in many shades of beauty.

Hope that helps.  :)

liveyoungdiefast

It could be. I love the person whom I love most in the same way religious folks love God. When you can give such a strong level of love to another human being, that could be spiritual. Or when a parent sacrifices so much to raise their child in the best possible way, or when humans of all beliefs unite for a common good, that can all be spiritual, at least from my perspective.

Personally I feel most spiritual when viewing nature in all its vast beauty. It's not like the mountains and oceans were made for me to view, but I still appreciate it.

newblueradio

Quote from: "liveyoungdiefast"It could be. I love the person whom I love most in the same way religious folks love God. When you can give such a strong level of love to another human being, that could be spiritual. Or when a parent sacrifices so much to raise their child in the best possible way, or when humans of all beliefs unite for a common good, that can all be spiritual, at least from my perspective.

Personally I feel most spiritual when viewing nature in all its vast beauty. It's not like the mountains and oceans were made for me to view, but I still appreciate it.

I think this was an outstanding post.  I'm glad to see that not all atheists are like the ones I met on another forum a few days ago.  "There's no such thing as a moral atheist," one said.

Of course nothing in the universe has meaning, until we GIVE it meaning.  And I can't imagine going through life giving NOTHING any meaning at all.  Then law and order would have no place and anarchy would reign.  One doesn't need religion to realize the benefits of a peaceful and loving co-existence.  Thank you for these words.

s0cks

Google says:

# religious: concerned with sacred matters or religion or the church; "religious texts"; "a member of a religious order"; "lords temporal and ...
# concerned with or affecting the spirit or soul; "a spiritual approach to life"; "spiritual fulfillment"; "spiritual values"; "unearthly love"
# lacking material body or form or substance; "spiritual beings"; "the vital transcendental soul belonging to the spiritual realm"-Lewis Mumford

Personally it sounds like a load of crap to me. Whenever someone mentions they are spiritual it says to me that they believe in a higher "thing" that they cannot explain but can just "feel". Yeh right. Personally I would change your profile to be "non-religious". It doesn't sound as harsh as atheist, and you don't want to end up with some spiritual, candle burning, insence, nut job, do you?

One can appreciate nature, beauty, compassion, love, and so on, without it being spiritual.

AlP

Quote from: "s0cks"It doesn't sound as harsh as atheist, and you don't want to end up with some spiritual, candle burning, insence, nut job, do you?

I just broke up with a muslim. Although she is one of the kindest people I know (good), I couldn't figure her out at all (not good). We had conversations along these lines:

(me) Do you think of yourself as a Muslim?
(her) Yes.
(me) Have you read the Qur'an?
(her) Yes
(me) Do you believe the Qur'an is the word of God?
(her) Yes
(me) Do you believe there is a God?
(her) No

Although incredibly frustrating, these were interesting conversations. It highlighted to me that when you're talking to someone with a religious background, they often have a completely different concept of what religion is. She's from Indonesia, where you basically have no choice but to be religious. For example, an Indonesian needs to carry an identity card stating their religion. There are 6 choices of state sanctioned religion: Islam, Catholicism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism. Not religious is not an option. They seem to associate atheism with communism. So my theory is she has to do a lot of rationalization to make whatever non-belief she has compatible with Indonesian law and society.

So anyway, right now a spiritual, candle burning, incense, nut job, as you so eloquently put it, sounds like a lot less of a challenge :)
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

s0cks

Haha. Sounds good. I just think its better to be honest rather than trying to appear different than you are. But maybe you really like candles!  :P

AlP

I changed my dating site profile to "not religious". I also added the quote in my signature by Robert Ingersoll to the "about me" section. That and a poem called "Salutation to the dawn", which usually makes me cry. And I said that. So it's probably safe to say I'm not going to find a girlfriend now. Haha, joking. At least I've increased my chances of finding a rational one.
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

s0cks

I'm single and I don't think I could sustain a relationship with a closed-minded religious girl, or even a materalistic, consumerist girl (been there done that, and I no longer live in that world - so much). So yeah, my chances are slim.

liveyoungdiefast

Before I even thought "I really am not into religion anymore" I even preferred atheists/agnostics, how weird is that?