Author Topic: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror  (Read 1633 times)

Davin

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 05:46:48 PM »
If you're going to ascribe some blame on the victim, that implies some "shoulds."

Do you think that a person should be able express their views without getting violently attacked? If you think that a person should, then how do you place any blame on a person doing just that who got run over? If you blame the victim, the you think that the victim did something wrong. So what did the victim do that was wrong that you're blaming them for? Expressing opposing opinions?

Sure, let's get all the felonies out of the way and see how many fall into which group. How far back do we start counting?

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Asmodean

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 05:59:57 PM »
Ok. At the risk of starting another marathon, I have to break this one down.

If you're going to ascribe some blame on the victim, that implies some "shoulds."
Not necessarily, but the maybes and ought-tos do make explaining one's position easier sometimes.

Quote
Do you think that a person should be able express their views without getting violently attacked?
Not as you phrase it, no. I think a person has an expectation of not being violently attacked. Period.

Quote
If you think that a person should, then how do you place any blame on a person doing just that who got run over? If you blame the victim, the you think that the victim did something wrong. So what did the victim do that was wrong that you're blaming them for? Expressing opposing opinions?
Not at all. I'm referring to said person willingly entering a potentially volatile situation. Had she been there by happenstance or against her will - a whole-nother-story. Again, it's a technicality in this instance. I think I explained my position well enough in the post above.

Quote
Sure, let's get all the felonies out of the way and see how many fall into which group. How far back do we start counting?
You count far, I will do wide. Let's see who wins, yes?

Ah, fuck me for playing the Stalin card. Felons are felons. In that regard, they all fall into the same group.
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Dave

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 06:24:30 PM »
Darvin asked:
Quote
Do you think that a person should be able express their views without getting violently attacked?
Asmo replied:
Quote
Not as you phrase it, no. I think a person has an expectation of not being violently attacked. Period.

With Asmo on the "...expectation of not being violently attacked..." aspect. Expressing one's views, freedom of speech, is skways a minefield. Expressing the views that, say, there is a Somethingish conspiracy to take the country over, is an opinion that, whilst inflamatory, is not illegal. Expressing an opinion that this should be a valid reason to persecute all those of the Something persuation has taken the matter over the line for most legal systems I would suspect.

But, it is still not grounds for an attack and anyone attacking a person voicing that latter opinion should be A. cheered by any right thinking person, yet, B. arrested and charged with a suitable assault offence.

(I would then conttibute to his defence fund on the promise he would not be such an idiot in future.)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 06:42:19 PM by Gloucester »
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Asmodean

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 06:41:02 PM »
Yes. The above, it is good.

To expand on my position a little, I have the same expectation of not being attacked if I walk up to an ill-tempered boulder of a guy made entirely from muscle and politely but bluntly inquire about how much them roids shrunk his testicles.

When said boulder then clocks me right in my fucking mouth, is he entirely at fault? I'm the vic in that situation - I was only trying to have a polite, if ill-advised conversation. Or am I entirely that..?

Often times, it does take at least two to tango. The rest is a matter of gradients and bad decisions.
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Arturo

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 07:45:41 PM »
Was this organizer you speak of Asmodean, was he the organizer of the white nationalist thing that day? And when he was assaulted, did that incite the violence "on both sides"? Because all I can find is that he was assaulted after during a press conference where people were chanting the name of the woman who died.

And this
Quote
I'm the vic in that situation - I was only trying to have a polite, if ill-advised conversation. Or am I entirely that..?
Inciting violence with words is still illegal. The words you used were not polite. The freedoms in america only go so far until you infringe on another person's rights. And the pursuit of happiness is still in the constitution.

That statue was from a traitor to the country. Whether you like him or not, he is not American. Like you said the statue is used to propagate their message. They likely used the statue as a symbol for their ideology. They think this country is so damn great, why do they care about the remnants of the defeated and dead military leader for a bunch of traitors? The guy is dead and they didn't do anything he did, so why are they trying to align themselves with him? Isn't that what they were saying about racists acts done by their ancestors before Trump was elected? "I didn't do that so I'm not falling for your liberal guilt". They are just using whatever means they can to get their ideas mainstreamed and put into enforced, and punishable law.

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jumbojak

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2017, 10:04:53 PM »
In a racist society it is not enough to be non-racist, we must be anti-racist.

One side arrived in militia.
One side beat a black man.
One side took a girl's life.





Fuck the Nazi, Alt-right, Confederate, Racist, In-Bred, Pale-White, Ignorant, Hateful Mother-Fuckers who marched on Friday night chanting “Jews will not replace us.", and who on Saturday chanted, "Blood and Soil", and who then murdered "Heather Heyer".

I'm glad that girl died’ during Virginia protest, says NC KKK leader



The stated beliefs of the Nazi-fascist movements, which is to destroy democracy, impose a terrorist regime based on racism, discrimination, and xenophobia through force segregation and genocide ≠ Opinion.

I'm trying to grasp the meaning of that tweet. Is Donald trying to imply that you need a permit to hold a protset or that one party having a permit somehow negates the right of one party to protest without one? Having been on the organizing end of a few such shindigs I always find it amusing when someone starts crying about having a permit. In this case I just find it sickening.
 

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2017, 12:31:53 AM »
^ Is it not ironic that Nazis didn't have a permit to start their war when the current ones are complaining the other side does not have their permit?

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Davin

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2017, 03:13:10 PM »
Looks like all that needs to be cleared up is blaming the victim (even a little).

Quote
Do you think that a person should be able express their views without getting violently attacked?
Not as you phrase it, no. I think a person has an expectation of not being violently attacked. Period.
Then what did they do wrong? Blaming someone requires that you think they did something wrong. So if you're going to blame them, even a little, for getting run over, then you should explain what they did wrong. Or maybe "blame" is not the word you mean?

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote
Sure, let's get all the felonies out of the way and see how many fall into which group. How far back do we start counting?
You count far, I will do wide. Let's see who wins, yes?
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/tables-and-data-declarations/1tabledatadecpdf
Looks like anti-white loses by a lot against all the others. By almost 10 to 1.

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Davin

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2017, 03:14:40 PM »
In a racist society it is not enough to be non-racist, we must be anti-racist.

One side arrived in militia.
One side beat a black man.
One side took a girl's life.





Fuck the Nazi, Alt-right, Confederate, Racist, In-Bred, Pale-White, Ignorant, Hateful Mother-Fuckers who marched on Friday night chanting “Jews will not replace us.", and who on Saturday chanted, "Blood and Soil", and who then murdered "Heather Heyer".

I'm glad that girl died’ during Virginia protest, says NC KKK leader



The stated beliefs of the Nazi-fascist movements, which is to destroy democracy, impose a terrorist regime based on racism, discrimination, and xenophobia through force segregation and genocide ≠ Opinion.

I'm trying to grasp the meaning of that tweet. Is Donald trying to imply that you need a permit to hold a protset or that one party having a permit somehow negates the right of one party to protest without one? Having been on the organizing end of a few such shindigs I always find it amusing when someone starts crying about having a permit. In this case I just find it sickening.
Like almost everything else Trump says, it's a lie. The counter-protesters had two permits.
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right

Edit: that tweet image is a joke based on what he really said, I was talking about what he really said.

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Davin

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2017, 07:32:42 PM »
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/photo-antifa-man-assaulting-officer-doctored-analysis-shows/

Doctored image of an "antifa" rioter attacking a cop was spread around.

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Papasito Bruno

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2017, 07:59:54 PM »

I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2017, 03:39:53 PM »
This picture says so much doesn't it?...Least of which you aren't born hating, it has to be taught.







I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

I really, really hate anti-semantics.

Icarus

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2017, 11:54:17 PM »
Davin's link to the DOJ tables & data-declarations is an intriguing read.  The numbers are curious and if they are to be believed, they are disturbingly revealing.

The Numbers suggest that there is four times more anti Jew activity/sentiment/animosity than there is anti Muslim activity.  I find that more than curious.  I'd have imagined the statistic to go the opposite direction. What the hell. The Jews are almost never given over to acts terrorism or senseless behavior that would reflect on their political, social, or religious convictions.

The anti gay (male) sentiment is three times more prevalent than anti Lesbian sentiment. This one I can take a mental flyer to kinda sorta understand. Here's why. The perpetrators of anti this or that actions are predominantly male and straight ....they are often Bubba types I figure. . A matter of fact is that a lot of men are turned on by observing lesbian PDA,  and especially the non public displays of affection.  Lesbians are less reviled therefore.... ?

 

Papasito Bruno

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2017, 02:26:41 AM »
Vice Reporter: Charlottesville Protesters ‘Didn't Talk About Robert E. Lee…They Chanted About Jews'


Quote
“This was an unannounced event, but a very well-organized one,” she began. “When we arrived, there were vans dropping off white nationalists at the field. On the field, there were organizers doing crowd control, security, handing out tiki torches. They picked tiki torches as to be menacing, sometimes they call it a torch-lit vigil, because it’s supposed to be an offensive spin on a candlelight vigil.”

“Once they started marching, they didn't talk about Robert E. Lee being a brilliant military tactician, they chanted about Jews,” she said. “They wanted to be menacing, it's not an accident.”


Regardless of what Trump or any of the other racist supporters say the march of the Nazi's had nothing to do with statues.
I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

I really, really hate anti-semantics.

Papasito Bruno

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Re: Charlottesville USA: Race and Terror
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2017, 10:08:12 PM »

No bond set for Chris "nazi crybaby" Cantwel...this is the well armed, racist, piece of shit from the "Vice" report I posted at the beginning of this thread.  (He surrendered to police and his now being held on multiple charges, judge denied him bail)
What is typical for these types of excrement is that when push comes to shove they are not the brave, ready to die for their cause types they like to present themselves as when bragging to reporters or posting their vile shit online.


When faced with having to deal with real situations they fucking back off, run and cry. As Anderson Cooper said, "..it's not really news to report that bullies are frequently also sniveling cowards."

Here's "Crybaby Cantwel" crying days after Charlottesville in a post he made online, and here's another inbred fuck-wad who's only brave when he marching with similar twats. Tries to remove his "Uniform", but doesn't change the fact that he's a pussy-ass nazi.

I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

I really, really hate anti-semantics.