Author Topic: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.  (Read 816 times)

Father Bruno

  • Deranged Psychopathic Twinkle Toes
  • Blessing Her Holy Hooves
  • *****
  • Posts: 4680
  • Gender: Male
  • Save water. Shower together!
This is a sobering article about the ongoing opioid epidemic here in the US...some of the numbers are staggering with overdoses from heroin and other opioids now killing more than 30,000 people a year. The opioid epidemic has been called the worst drug crisis in American history, with death rates now rivaling those of AIDS during the 1990s. In fact drug overdoses themselves now kill more people in the US each year than car accidents, back in 2014 29,230 people died in car accidents, while 47,055 died from a drug overdose.

It's definitely only going to get worse, especially under the current administration health care cuts and the GOP and Christian Rights objection to police or even librarians having access to Narcan kits.

Every taco is hand rolled with exotic Mexican spices by genuine Mayan Virgins.
Or. Carlos, depending on who's available.

Davin

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 10:53:16 AM »
And in states where weed has been legalized, opioid addictions and deaths have dropped significantly.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • Gender: Male
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 11:48:03 AM »
And in states where weed has been legalized, opioid addictions and deaths have dropped significantly.

Thst certsinly seems to be the case fir kegal use of opioids and marijuana in states where medical use of the latter allowed. That seens to make sense if both accidental and deliberate opioid overdoses have bern considered. I wonder if anyone criss-rekated this with varuation in deaths of chronic pain sufferers due to other reasons, including suicide.
http://drugabuse.com/legalizing-marijuana-decreases-fatal-opiate-overdoses/

Most references at the moment cite those figures only ftom the states thst have legalised medical use, did not find cases of legalised recreational use of pot versus illegal recreational use of oipoids for as far as I looked.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Davin

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 11:50:52 AM »
And in states where weed has been legalized, opioid addictions and deaths have dropped significantly.

Thst certsinly seems to be the case fir kegal use of opioids and marijuana in states where medical use of the latter allowed. That seens to make sense if both accidental and deliberate opioid overdoses have bern considered. I wonder if anyone criss-rekated this with varuation in deaths of chronic pain sufferers due to other reasons, including suicide.
http://drugabuse.com/legalizing-marijuana-decreases-fatal-opiate-overdoses/

Most references at the moment cite those figures only ftom the states thst have legalised medical use, did not find cases of legalised recreational use of pot for as far as I looked.
A problem with this, is that we need to give studies that answer something longer term like that, some more time.

But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • Gender: Male
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 12:13:34 PM »
And in states where weed has been legalized, opioid addictions and deaths have dropped significantly.

Thst certsinly seems to be the case fir kegal use of opioids and marijuana in states where medical use of the latter allowed. That seens to make sense if both accidental and deliberate opioid overdoses have bern considered. I wonder if anyone criss-rekated this with varuation in deaths of chronic pain sufferers due to other reasons, including suicide.
http://drugabuse.com/legalizing-marijuana-decreases-fatal-opiate-overdoses/

Most references at the moment cite those figures only ftom the states thst have legalised medical use, did not find cases of legalised recreational use of pot for as far as I looked.
A problem with this, is that we need to give studies that answer something longer term like that, some more time.

But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?

Not arguing against you, Davin, anything that reduces drug overdose deaths is good - but the possibility that legalised pot msy cause long term problems, from it acting as a "gateway drug" (and I have seen something of the argument on that) to chronic health problems from smoking the stuff - tars etc that could still be a carcinogenic factor, must be put into the equation. A study of whatever scientific, non-biased data on this would be interesting to see. Is it still too early to tell yet? I wonder how many regular Dutch users have suffered which conditions that could be linked to their habit? Maybe conditions similar to low to moderate tobacco users?

The oral/dietary use of marijuana as a medication is another matter.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

No one

  • Yields Not to Kalamity
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 12:16:44 PM »
Davin:
But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?


Um....because that would make sense. And the powers that be will have none of that.

Davin

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 12:27:35 PM »
But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?

Not arguing against you, Davin, anything that reduces drug overdose deaths is good - but the possibility that legalised pot msy cause long term problems, from it acting as a "gateway drug"[...]
The bottom line is, weed is mostly harmless. It's less harmless than sugar. It's less harmless than beef. It's less harmless than alcohol and way less harmless than tobacco. It's less harmless than most things we allow people to consume. There is no good reason to ban it from public consumption.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Davin

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 12:31:15 PM »
Davin:
But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?


Um....because that would make sense. And the powers that be will have none of that.
It does generate a lot of income for those private prisons and is a competitor to alcohol and tobacco, all of which have some deep pockets and a lot of bribers I mean lobbyists.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Recusant

  • Miscreant Erendrake
  • Administrator
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5450
  • Gender: Male
  • infidel barbarian
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 12:46:35 PM »
It doesn't help that the current US Attorney General is a fucking 'reefer madness'/stomp on the necks of swarthy people ideologue.

Quote
Attorney General Jeff Sessions told a gathering of law enforcement officials in Richmond, Virginia last week that legalizing marijuana would not make the United States "a better place," and he is "astonished" by the suggestion that cannabis could be used to combat the nation's "heroin crisis." Two days later, New Mexico -- which has suffered from by high rates of opiate-related deaths for years -- moved to do just that.

On Friday, New Mexico's legislature approved a bill that would make patients diagnosed with opiate disorders eligible for the state's medical marijuana program. The idea already has the blessing of the state's Medical Advisory Board, and if approved by the governor, New Mexico would become the first state to specifically to put opiate disorders on its list of conditions that can be treated with cannabis products.

A growing field of research suggests that medical cannabis can be used for opiate replacement therapy and as a safer substitute for prescription painkillers, resulting in dramatic drops in dependency, overdose deaths and hospitalizations. In some parts of the country, patients with opiate disorders are already being treated with cannabis products.  Last year, researchers echoed findings in earlier studies and determined that the number of prescriptions filled by Medicare dropped significantly in states with medical marijuana programs.

The findings, along with New Mexico's innovative legislation, are cause for excitement in the worlds of medicine and drug reform as the US confronts an opiate overdose epidemic. But for ultra-conservatives like Sessions, de-stigmatizing marijuana -- and suggesting that it could help solve drug-related problems instead of create them -- is an affront to the longstanding tradition of demonizing drugs and drug users in the name of the war on drugs. This decades-long war has cost over $1 trillion and greatly expanded the power of law enforcement at the expense of marginalized people, and Sessions seems reluctant to give that power up now that he is the nation's top cop.

In Richmond, Sessions acknowledged that his beliefs about drugs may be "unfashionable," but that doesn't matter because lives are at stake. His prepared remarks were posted online before the event, and he reportedly veered off script, skipping a line declaring marijuana use to be "only slightly less awful" than heroin after catching some flack on Twitter. The prepared speech is still available on the Justice Department's website.

"Sessions is basically saying [that] legalizing marijuana will increase our rates opiate deaths -- in fact, it's the reverse," said Emily Kaltenbach, a reform strategist for the Drug Policy Alliance in New Mexico. "He's not recognizing that, in fact, marijuana is an exit drug, not a gateway drug."

Sessions, who called for a return to anti-drug programs like Nancy Reagan's failed "Just Say No" campaign of the 1980s and '90s, is apparently nostalgic for the "reefer madness" of yesteryear. Marijuana is far less addictive than opiates, and it does not cause debilitating physical withdrawals like those suffered by people with opiate use disorders. In 2015, 33,000 people nationwide died of opiate an overdose, while the number of marijuana overdose deaths stayed at a steady zero. The medical marijuana industry now offers an array of treatments, including smokeless medicines and low-THC products that cause minimal intoxication.

This isn't the first time the nation's new attorney general has seemed out of touch when it comes to drugs. Drug policy reformers fiercely opposed Sessions' confirmation, citing his career-long history of favoring mass incarceration over drug treatment and recovery. Most recently, he helped block bipartisan sentencing reform in the Senate, which many advocates say would be an important step toward scaling back the war on drugs and its brutal impact on communities of color.

Critics say Sessions' harsh policies fell hardest on Black folks when he served as attorney general of Alabama, and he has a history of making racist statements. For example, Sessions once remarked that he thought the Klu Klux Klan was "OK until I found out that they smoked pot."

[Continues . . .]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • Gender: Male
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 01:02:40 PM »
But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?

Not arguing against you, Davin, anything that reduces drug overdose deaths is good - but the possibility that legalised pot msy cause long term problems, from it acting as a "gateway drug"[...]
The bottom line is, weed is mostly harmless. It's less harmless than sugar. It's less harmless than beef. It's less harmless than alcohol and way less harmless than tobacco. It's less harmless than most things we allow people to consume. There is no good reason to ban it from public consumption.

If it is less harmless than all those things you quoted then, surely, it is more harmful?

Yes, lots of things have health hazards attached and should be used or consumed sensibly, I eat very little red neat now and have even reduced my meat intake in general. But, as omnivores evolved for a varied diet, needing complex compounds from all food groups, "adequate intake" is a good rule.

However we did not evolve to make use of  compounds that are possibly part of a plants defence mechanism, compounds designed to damage the eater. We will have evolved a degree of tolerance to these, even a taste for some. Certainly the taste for the psycho-active effects of some! A neighbour has smoked pot for years, but not tobacco. He now suffers from COPD.

Less harmful but still harmfull, useful as a medication for those who standard painkillers are not suffiecient and opioids a social or medical problem - but that can be a boring pill.

If hemp pills were available here and I was told they would relieve my various age related pains, or even my heart condition, I would sign up for the pills tomorrow. But I would never smoke the stuff!

Info here on health, physical and mental, problems from marijuana.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Davin

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 01:12:52 PM »
But since weed is mostly harmless, and there appears to be a connection to opioid addiction reduction, then why not give it a go?

Not arguing against you, Davin, anything that reduces drug overdose deaths is good - but the possibility that legalised pot msy cause long term problems, from it acting as a "gateway drug"[...]
The bottom line is, weed is mostly harmless. It's less harmless than sugar. It's less harmless than beef. It's less harmless than alcohol and way less harmless than tobacco. It's less harmless than most things we allow people to consume. There is no good reason to ban it from public consumption.

If it is less harmless than all those things you quoted then, surely, it is more harmful
lol wut?

Quote from: Gloucester
Yes, lots of things have heakth hazards and should be used or consumed sebsibly[...]
Everything actually.

Quote from: Gloucester
However we did not evolve to make use of  compounds[...]
Species do not evolve "to" anything. There are plenty of compounds that are mostly harmless even though we didn't have any evolutionary selective pressure from using or not using them. Like aspirin, aspirin is also mostly harmless.

Quote from: Gloucester
Less harmful but still harmfull, useful as a medication for those who standard painkillers are not suffiecient and opioids a social or medical problem - but that can be a boring pill.
I'm having trouble parsing this sentence.

Quote from: Gloucester
If hemp pills were available here and I was told they would relieve my various age related pains, or even my heart condition, i would sign up for the pills tomorrow. But I would never smoje the stuff!
That's great! But what do your personal choices have to do with supporting the restriction of other peoples personal choices?

Quote from: Gloucester
Info here on health, physical and mental, problems from marijuana.
Anything specific to this discussion? I'm not going to go read several pages of information I already know to try to weed out the point you're trying to make.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

No one

  • Yields Not to Kalamity
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 01:22:28 PM »
Davin:
Anything specific to this discussion? I'm not going to go read several pages of information I already know to try to weed out the point you're trying to make.

Clever!


Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • Gender: Male
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 01:30:26 PM »
"Less harmless than...", in my Engish, could be written as, "not as harmless as..." this seemed to be equivalent to, "more harmful than.." to me.

Anyone else care to offer an opinion on this?

OK on the point on evolution, but nsinly semsntucs.

I was attempting to nsje thebpoint that I  am not anti-drug. I am, however, concerned about those who consume enough of sufficient psycho-active compounds, esoecially for recreational purposes, to do themselves damage, from either those compounds soecufically of the by-products of the method of their use.

This rdminds me of the devste on this matter in college, the difference between the users and non-users in approach. The users being the defensive and therefore the more aggressive side.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Davin

  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 6411
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 01:53:18 PM »
"Less harmless than...", in my Engish, could be written as, "not as harmless as..." this seemed to be equivalent to, "more harmful than.." to me.
That doesn't make any sense to me.

Quote from: Gloucester
I was attempting to nsje thebpoint that I  am not anti-drug. I am, however, concerned about those who consume enough of sufficient psycho-active compounds, esoecially for recreational purposes, to do themselves damage, from either those compounds soecufically of the by-products of the method of their use.
Is that why you want to make alcohol illegal? I mean, I could understand your point if you made some kind of line. As far as all the illegal substances go, weed causes the least harm. Weed also causes less harm than legal drugs available without a prescription. Which is why there is no good reason to keep it illegal.

Be concerned about other people all you want, I don't care about that. What I care about it when you support making decisions for other people. Which I'm not necessarily against, but if you're going to do that, then you need better reasons.

Quote from: Gloucester
This rdminds me of the devste on this matter in college, the difference between the users and non-users in approach. The users being the defensive and therefore the more aggressive side.
I don't know about that, I'm quite aggressive about legalizing marijuana, but I don't use it.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • Gender: Male
Re: Call the librarian: Unlikely heroes of the opioid epidimic.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 02:51:04 PM »
"Less harmless than...", in my Engish, could be written as, "not as harmless as..." this seemed to be equivalent to, "more harmful than.." to me.
That doesn't make any sense to me.

Try:

"(Marijuana) is less safe than (sugar)" = "(marihuana) is not as safe as (sugar) = "(marijuana) is more dangerous than (sugar)."

When did I say I wanted to make alcohol illegal? I enjoyed a glass of wine, without a twinge to my conscience, this evening.

You are becoming personal in your arguments, Davin, rather than attacking mine with evidence to support yours. Let's just agree to differ, fifty odd years of discussion and debate inform me that if two people hold strong opposing views it is usually a waste of time and effort arguing the toss.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 03:06:57 PM by Gloucester »
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.