Author Topic: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.  (Read 1314 times)

Father Bruno

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Our Blessed Papa in Rome has once again mentioned us atheists in one of his sermons, on Thursday. He said,...Christians who exploit people, lead a double life and get involved in "dirty business," scandalize the church,...In fact, it might be better just to be an atheist".

He went on to say,...he imagined a wealthy Christian knocking at the gates of heaven and saying, "Here I am, Lord! ... I went to Church, I was close to you, I belong to this association, I did this... Don't you remember all the offerings I made?"

To which Jesus may reply, according to the Pope:

"Yes, I remember. The offerings, I remember them: All dirty. All stolen from the poor. I don't know you.' That will be Jesus' response to these scandalous people who live a double life."


I'm sure this will ruffle the feathers of many a christian, and I'm interested in finding out from catholics how they feel about this, especially some of the hard-core Catholics I know. (Some of my wife's friends from Honduras are like "Católicos locos".


In simple terms it comes down to just doing good in your life, practice some compassion, and forget the dogma, the scripture, the fundamentalist waco and extremist teachings and try not to be a dick.

CNN Article about the Papa giving atheists some love.

Not that this applies to all of you atheists here at HAF, some of you still need to get with me and confess your sins...
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 10:16:21 AM »
As much as I want to believe that, CNN doesn't have a source for that so I wonder how much of it is true and how much of it was spun to fulfil an objective. But I am viewing on my phone so that may have an affect.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 10:26:02 AM »
Some Catholics may listen to what the pope said, but plenty of them have already written him off because of just this sort of thing. They bring their politics into the church, and since they see the pope as disagreeing with their politics, they feel justified in ignoring his preaching.

This current Pope is a Loony Left clown.




As much as I want to believe that, CNN doesn't have a source for that so I wonder how much of it is true and how much of it was spun to fulfil an objective. But I am viewing on my phone so that may have an affect.

CNN cited (but didn't link) Vatican Radio. Their article on the sermon basically confirms what CNN reported.

A direct quote of the pope from that site:

Quote
“But what is scandal? Scandal is saying one thing and doing another; it is a double life, a double life. A totally double life: ‘I am very Catholic, I always go to Mass, I belong to this association and that one; but my life is not Christian, I don’t pay my workers a just wage, I exploit people, I am dirty in my business, I launder money…’ A double life. And so many Christians are like this, and these people scandalize others. How many times have we heard – all of us, around the neighbourhood and elsewhere – ‘but to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.’ It is that, scandal. You destroy. You beat down. And this happens every day, it’s enough to see the news on TV, or to read the papers. In the papers there are so many scandals, and there is also the great publicity of the scandals. And with the scandals there is destruction.”

So he didn't himself say that it's better to be an atheist than a greedy exploitative Catholic, he attributed that thought to what is heard "around the neighbourhood and elsewhere." CNN says that he "suggested" such a thing, which is more or less accurate.
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Dave

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 10:41:46 AM »
By not refuting the, "...better to be an atheist" it might be considered that he endorses that sentiment.

Most religious organisations have had a hypocritical streak for all their histories I think, either lay or clergy who say one thing yet fo something very different.

Just like regular peoples!
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Pasta Chick

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 11:35:09 AM »
Kinda backhanded though.

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 03:35:51 PM »
Oh, but the Vatican is very poor, so very poor... :-\ And surely they haven't gotten their riches historically by not exploiting people. Wasn't that one of the factors that sparked the Protestant Reformation? :notsure:

Kinda backhanded though.

:this:

A "real" Catholic > Atheist > Greedy Christian.
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Tom62

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 10:37:49 PM »
Oh, but the Vatican is very poor, so very poor... :-\ And surely they haven't gotten their riches historically by not exploiting people. Wasn't that one of the factors that sparked the Protestant Reformation? :notsure:

Kinda backhanded though.

:this:

A "real" Catholic > Atheist > Greedy Christian.

Once the catholic church will start to give the money and properties back that they stole from the people; as well as get rid of their special privileges (like tax exemptions) then I'll start to take the pope more serious.
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Father Bruno

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 06:05:48 AM »
Well the Vatican was quick to clarify, or shall we say "Correct" the Pope's comment regarding you helpless atheist.

Vatican spokesman the Rev. Thomas Rosica released a statement, as well as quoted from the "Catechism of the Catholic Church"
"All salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body,” Rosica wrote. “Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her.”

Further clarify by adding: “[Pope Francis] is first and foremost a seasoned pastor and preacher who has much experience in reaching people,” the statement said. “His words are not spoken in the context of a theological faculty or academy nor in interreligious dialogue or debate.”

So there you have it, we're still going to hell...move along nothing else to see here.
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 06:56:21 AM »
Now that's the Church I know and hate!  ::)
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Pasta Chick

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 06:58:06 AM »
Quote
“Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her.”

First things first:



Seriously though, doesn't that mean atheists are NOT going to hell?

By the general theist perception that we "just hate God and want to do whatever we want" it would certainly condemn us, but we all know what's wrong with that claim. By true definition we are atheist because we do not "know" the church was founded by Christ, and even if we did we do not "know" that this is necessary for salvation. Until such convincing evidence is presented, sounds like we're in the clear!

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 07:20:43 AM »
So, only the academic or sanctimonious stuff Il Papa utters is to be believed. His personal opinions are irrelevant to the rest of his mob?

Just another figure-head then, irrelevant to the rest of the world.
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Dredge

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2017, 11:57:49 PM »
Now that's the Church I know and hate!  ::)
You hate the Church because you believe it says atheists are going to a hell - a place that you don't believe even exists?  I'm confused.   

Btw, if memory serves, the Cathecism doesn't say that all atheists are necessarily damned to hell.  I'll have to look that up.
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2017, 02:08:11 AM »
Now that's the Church I know and hate!  ::)
You hate the Church because you believe it says atheists are going to a hell - a place that you don't believe even exists?  I'm confused.   

Btw, if memory serves, the Cathecism doesn't say that all atheists are necessarily damned to hell.  I'll have to look that up.

Correct, Dredge, you are confused. Mainly because you believe the bunkum that your church tells you without critical analysis.

Personally I have no fear of hell, becsuse it does not exist in its classical form*. But I do have feelings towards those who believe in hell and think that those like me are headed towards something that is real to them. That is equivalent to them wishing me sctually tortured.

So, why should I not dislike someone, or some organisation, who wishes evil on me? Even if that evil is a figment of their imagination? However, sometimes I merely pity them for their delusion.

So, Dredge is this your true nature? Not just a creationist but also a fundamentalist? Blinded by the things you are told and read? Unable to understand that the men of your god can be evil and those who have no god at all can be good? That genetics and life experience determine a oerson's motives and actions - including what they believe in and how they use that belief? For good or evil?

Edit.

*If there is a hell in human experience PTSD could be a prime candidate - the repeated experience of traumatic events, life shattering events, health, mental and physical, destroying events. You can include things like child abuse, beatings, possibly even bring told, over and again, that you are a bad person. in that.

All things done by "men of god". But, even then the mature persons looks at another as an individual: the evil person, theist or atheist, is evil; the good person, theist or astheist, is good. Swap your broad brush for a size 00, start filling in the real details in your picture of the world, not nerely those you see through the distorting filter of your religious glasses.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 02:24:09 AM by Gloucester »
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2017, 07:22:22 PM »
That is a well reasoned reply Gloucester.

Dredge

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2017, 12:13:32 AM »
Well the Vatican was quick to clarify, or shall we say "Correct" the Pope's comment regarding you helpless atheist.

Vatican spokesman the Rev. Thomas Rosica released a statement, as well as quoted from the "Catechism of the Catholic Church"
"All salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body,” Rosica wrote. “Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her.”

Further clarify by adding: “[Pope Francis] is first and foremost a seasoned pastor and preacher who has much experience in reaching people,” the statement said. “His words are not spoken in the context of a theological faculty or academy nor in interreligious dialogue or debate.”

So there you have it, we're still going to hell...move along nothing else to see here.
Regarding atheism, the Cathecism of the Catholic Church says,
 #2125
"The imputability of this offense (atheism) can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances.  Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism ... (since some believers, due to their failures) conceal rather than reveal the true nature of God and of religion."
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