Encourage me, advise me, just don't balkanize me

[dunamandros]

Okay, I only said the bit about "don't balkanize me" because it rhymed and I liked the way it sounded. I suppose what I mean to say is that you can balkanize me if you really need to. But seriously, I could use a little encouragement, advice, pithy proverbs, or whatever in the world you feel like saying back to me. I know that so many of you have experienced this sort of thing. I have recently rejected the assumptions underlying Christianity, and have kept this entirely private except here at HAF. My wife is a devoted Christian, and our shared faith has been a central pillar of our marriage for years. We catechize our almost three-year-old daughter every day, read the Bible and pray and sing together as a family every night, and our newborn son will soon be baptized into our Reformed Presbyterian church. I've been trying my best to play along nicely over the past month, and plan to continue that at least for the near future. I have justified my dishonesty by telling myself that I'm protecting my most important relationships. Coming out would shatter my wife, and would at best strain most of my other family relations.

All of our meaningful friendships are either from church or the seminary I stopped attending back in December due to an injury. If I told my wife she would take it as a betrayal, lose trust in me, and would have a difficult time looking at me or speaking to me. She would retreat into the arms of her church family. She would erect a wall between our children and me with an "us versus him" mentality. She would be desperately and painfully lonely, far lonelier than I feel right now. I have compromised my integrity through my charade, and that causes a difficult dissonance with my self-identification as an honest person. I've had to try to reshape how I perceive myself, finding self worth in preserving relationships in order to overcome my guilt for the deception. But it's not easy to just change my inner identity. It's not easy to say, "okay, this is the core of who I have to be right now."

I don't think I can keep this up forever. I think I have to come clean to her sometime. Sometime this year we will probably move to California, even farther away from family than we currently are. It would have to be after we move, when we're away from our church. Our denomination is small, but it has a very strong social and theological and historical identity within itself, with rigorous doctrine and sweet, pious people. So making things more difficult, if we move, then we already know exactly where we'd go to church. To make things even more difficult, the pastor there is the brother of one of our former pastors whose family we're very close to. So we already have a personal connection to our church where we might move. Whether I came out to her here or there, my wife will have someone else to run to and to be her consolation. That would only make it easier for her to withdraw from me and harder to connect to me. I feel manipulative thinking strategically like this, but I must try to be pragmatic.

I have considered a few different options for coming out, and none of them is attractive. One option I've considered is attempting a controlled slide into liberal Christianity. But even that would fly in the face of our theology almost as much as outright atheism, and we'd still have to leave our denomination sooner or later. I think the better approach is a direct one. I cannot in good conscience conduct any kind of long term manipulation. Besides, when she eventually found out that I was manipulating her, my wife would resent me for it, and lose trust anyway. I think my best approach is to wait until we move and be more direct. She has demonstrated in the past that she is able to adapt her beliefs to maintain important relationships. When she was a younger woman, her best friend was a strict vegetarian for conscience-related reasons. The two of them had a minor falling out, and my wife became a staunch vegetarian. (She convinced herself that changing her views on meat and animals had nothing to do with mending the relationship, but the connection is pretty obvious.) Vegetarianism was a strong part of her identity when we met. I had no desire to change her leafy diet, and she had no desire to change my omnivore diet. A few years later we got married. A few years later she violated my trust, and I was about to divorce her, thinking that she could not possible transform into a trustworthy person. Then she became intensely religious (we had been nominal Christians before that). Then she started eating meat again in order to connect to me. Knowing how deeply her vegetarianism had been rooted, I realized that there was something in her identity that really could transform.

All of that is a long way of building up to my hope that she'll be willing to change again for me in even deeper ways. She won't be able to tolerate me, otherwise.

It's late, and I'm tired. I've got to cut this off here. Thank you for reading this and for caring.

[Claireliontamer]

That's such a difficult situation. Honestly, I don't think I could keep up the pretence nor would I want someone lying to me about something like this for so long.  There are people (some on here) in relationships where one person is religious and the other isn't and you can make it work.  However, this particular church sounds like it may make things more difficult.  I know you don't want to hurt your wife but I think by being dishonest about your true feelings you are too.  I also don't think you should just expect her to change to go along with you either.  Personally, I know I'd want the person to be honest with me but I've never been deeply religious so can't put myself in that situation.

Does she appear happy with her belief at the moment? Perhaps just try dropping some hints or asking questions to make her think about her own faith?

Sorry, a difficult situation all round and I'm not sure it is going to plain sailing whatever you decide to do.

[Tank]

On a purely pragmatic level I would advise that you keep your council, if you can bear it, for a while yet. Your wife needs your support during the birth of your next child.

Another thought crosses my mind. Discuss other versions of Christianity and other religions with her in private, discuss atheism and see how she reacts. You may find a way to open the discussion on her inner thoughts. I have no doubt that there are millions of closet atheists world-wide in similar positions to you. They come here and other atheist forums on a regular basis. We have had JW elders in exactly the same situation as yourself on a number of occasions. Discuss, in a third party manner, belief with your wife. This may provide an opening or at least lay some ground work for when you do actually 'come out'.

Another thing I would recommend is that you 'come out' in private to your wife when she can't immediately 'bolt' for a secure location. This could be as simple as a long car drive. Maybe get the grandparents to take the kids for few days? The point is to give her some time to get past any initial potentially negative reaction.

I do get the impression that you feel pretty much anything you do is going to be damage limitation. That is very sad and upsetting. You felt you had it all both in this life and the next. Now it's just you. Undoubtedly a traumatic experience. How do you feel about your change of world view?

When Charles Darwins eldest daughter died I think it was the catalyst that caused him to admit to himself that he was agnostic and probably an atheist. He still took his wife and family to church every Sunday but he left at the door and went for a walk with his own thoughts. Maybe this is a route for your future? Support her in her faith while admitting you have none?

[Crow]

Be honest with your wife. Keeping these sort of things secret is not a good thing, the relationship might break down but it is best to discuss with her your thoughts on the subject as if you can have an honest discourse with her in the early days rather than later on it will go a lot easier. If it does break down over a small thing such as religion the relationship might not have been built on firm foundations to begin with.

Don't be like "hey! I don't believe in Christianity any more it is bollocks and I'm not going to engage with it any more." set your timing well, say after church when her mind is on religion and you can direct your conversation to something that is in the present, "For the last few weeks I have been thinking about religion and that service we went to has further developed my opinion in that I do not believe it any more and I want to discuss my thoughts with you." You can guess which questions are going to come, what was it that made you lose your belief, how long have you felt like this, do you not believe in Christ, what about the children, etc. So have loose honest answers ready. She might be condescending thinking it is a phase so you have to be patent with her, don't rise to any provocations as it is a discussion not an argument. Don't fake anything, it is always a daft thing to do, it prolongs any feelings and almost guaranteed to be super messy when the conversation does come up. Blind siding someone can often be very good when you want to discuss a topic as it gives you the advantage to set the tone of a topic and conduct its flow and can easily paint her in the wrong upon self reflection if she does lose it and will be more open to a open discussion at a later date.

If she gets angry ask her why she is so when you are being honest and non confrontational in a calm collected manner. Anger is often a defensive reaction and not always an accurate reflection of peoples feelings. If she cries comfort her, etc. Basically just jump in feet first and get a conversation going.

[Recusant]

If you follow Tank's suggested route of waiting for now because of wanting to be supportive of your wife during her pregnancy (which sounds reasonable to me), you probably should then also wait at least a few months after your child is born, since post-pregnancy can be a difficult time. His suggested tentative spade-work conversations, however brief, sound like a good way to begin, as well. If you decide to hold off on dropping this in her lap, you should keep that resolution firmly in mind when broaching the topic.

[Crow]

If you follow Tank's suggested route of waiting for now because of wanting to be supportive of your wife during her pregnancy (which sounds reasonable to me), you probably should then also wait at least a few months after your child is born, since post-pregnancy can be a difficult time. His suggested tentative spade-work conversations, however brief, sound like a good way to begin, as well. If you decide to hold off on dropping this in her lap, you should keep that resolution firmly in mind when broaching the topic.

Do you perhaps think that if you are looking for the perfect chance then one will never arise. Pregnancy, then the baby period, then the toddler period, not to mention what the other children will then be doing, then all the other stuff that life throws at you. All the while this will be festering under the surface, perhaps breeding resentment or other feelings. Ultimately doing a lot more harm than good. Just throw it out their and get it done with, don't over think it be in the moment and just do it. You can deal with the fallout later and if it is your wife it shouldn't really be that hard a thing to deal with anyway, if it is then why on earth did you get married in the first place.

[Recusant]

Agreed that the perfect opportunity likely will never arise. On the other hand, some times are definitely better than others. Adding more stress to an already stressful period seems ill-advised.

Whenever you decide to talk it over with your wife, dunamandros, I think it would be good to make sure she knows that your love for her is more important than this. I hope that she feels the same way.

[dunamandros]

Oh I thought I mentioned it, but I guess not. Our son was born on the 16th! We have a terrific baby boy.

[Tank]

If you follow Tank's suggested route of waiting for now because of wanting to be supportive of your wife during her pregnancy (which sounds reasonable to me), you probably should then also wait at least a few months after your child is born, since post-pregnancy can be a difficult time. His suggested tentative spade-work conversations, however brief, sound like a good way to begin, as well. If you decide to hold off on dropping this in her lap, you should keep that resolution firmly in mind when broaching the topic.

Do you perhaps think that if you are looking for the perfect chance then one will never arise. Pregnancy, then the baby period, then the toddler period, not to mention what the other children will then be doing, then all the other stuff that life throws at you. All the while this will be festering under the surface, perhaps breeding resentment or other feelings. Ultimately doing a lot more harm than good. Just throw it out their and get it done with, don't over think it be in the moment and just do it. You can deal with the fallout later and if it is your wife it shouldn't really be that hard a thing to deal with anyway, if it is then why on earth did you get married in the first place.

Bear in mind the above is advice from an unmarried man with no kids. I, on the other hand, have 3 kids and have been married close to 36 years. This doesn't invalidate Crows comments he's a bright bloke but I don't expect there to be a 'perfect moment' as he suggests. I have no doubt that you dunamandros meant every word of your wedding vows when you said them. Just because you have ceased to believe God is in that equation doesn't obviate your responsibilities to your wife or kids and I know you know that.

You do have responsibilities as a husband and father but you also have responsibilities to yourself and the truth of yourself. It's finding a balance. If you just lob the grenade of your new found world view into your relationship you know what will happen, you've speculated on that already. What I am suggesting is taking your time and breaking it to her gently while demonstrating in practical terms your care and love for her, your son and your new born. Show her that as an atheist, even before you tell her, you are a loving supportive husband and father and that to you that is more important than faith. This may not work but you yourself have said that a 'confession' would be the end of your marriage. If you want a future with your wife you have got to demonstrate to her that you see her before her faith.

In my opinion the least worse way for her to deal with your new found world view is to let her discover it herself. Don't be dishonest with her, when she asks "Have you lost your faith?" you have got to say yes. But until that time you have got to be the best husband she could wish for. Whether this works any better than the 'grenade' option is unknown at this point but I would suggest it's the only option that gives you, her and your children any sort of future as a family based on the dynamics of your world as you have described it here.

And also bear in mind that you are in control of the time scale here there is no dead-line on this except the one you choose to set in your head. How does all this sound?

[Tank]

Congratulations! Double daddy!

We have a member here who's husband 'played away' and when confronted left. He left her with a 3(or 4) year old son and a babe in arms. He's never seen his second son. His son will never know him. Your family is more important than other people's faith, your wife included. Fight for you family you owe it to them. Be strong, do the right thing by the people you love and have brought into this world. You're the only real father they'll ever have.

[Crow]

Oh I thought I mentioned it, but I guess not. Our son was born on the 16th! We have a terrific baby boy.

Congratulations.

And to add to Tanks comment I'm not a fan of relationships in general, the reason I don't is that I start to see patterns that I get tempted to manipulate them which I went through a phase of doing, but eventually decided it was mean and cause far more long term harm especially when I'm never serious (so far anyway) about relationships.

[Firebird]

You're in a tough spot for sure, and I'm glad we can provide an outlet for you.

I don't know that I agree with Crow either.  Yes, the romantically heroic option from the atheist perspective would be to be true to yourself, tell your wife, and deal with the repercussions. But that's easy to say from a distance. You have a responsibility to be true to yourself, but you also have dueling responsibilities too, to your wife and kids, and those are also important. And if you think it would do more harm than good, I see no shame in suppressing this side of you for now. Staying "in the closet" for the rest of your life is probably a bad idea, but that doesn't mean you can't find a more strategic way of dealing with this. I like Claire's idea of dropping hints or just asking general questions to gauge her beliefs, without fully "coming out" yet. Perhaps that will set a foundation upon which you can build. Mention the Reason Rally being held in DC later this year as something you saw in the news, perhaps. My wife and I just watched a documentary on magician and skeptic James Randi that was very good (An Honest Liar), and while it doesn't go into atheism specifically, maybe watch it with her just because you heard it got good reviews.

Good luck.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Instead of springing the conclusion of your own search suddenly on your wife, why not take her on your journey?  Think of it as a novel - instead of telling her the ending, start at page one and start asking her the same questions you asked yourself.  Look at it as an opportunity to share your inmost thoughts. If it took you a year to arrive at your conclusion, take at least that much time with her.

[xSilverPhinx]

Oh I thought I mentioned it, but I guess not. Our son was born on the 16th! We have a terrific baby boy.

Congrats!

[xSilverPhinx]

Tough situation you're in. I don't know your wife but based on what I know about Christians in general I'll offer my two cents.

How does she feel about atheism and atheists? One thing I've noticed about most Xtians is that they see agnosticism as less aggressive to their cherished beliefs than outright atheism is. Not that they are mutually exclusive, an atheist can be an agnostic as well, but they are both definitely perceived differently.

When she's gotten used to the idea that you've questioned your faith then it might be easier to come out as one who doesn't have any faith at all, I think.

Strategically, you'd have to know their reactions in order to try and determine the best possible outcome. If you have to, probe. As already mentioned above, drop a hint every now and then. I would just favour a "I don't know" to a "there are no gods" approach at this difficult point in the process.