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Alcoholics Anonymous and belief in God

Started by Sophie, February 23, 2008, 06:25:13 PM

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VanReal

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"I was going back reading through this thread to see when it started to go a bit off track from a discussion into a more argumentative phase. I also wanted to see if I was correct in thinking that the times I've been mentioned in this thread were actually based on posts in another thread. I got to the above string of posts and they got me thinking.

What if I substitute another word for "god" in the first post? Something like "family"? It would read like this:
"Believing in [family] is all about  believing a power which we need in order to help succeed and to back us in failure and hence i too believe in [family]."

Nothing wrong with that. Looks pretty good to me. But what would the response look like?
"Believing in [family] does not help with recovery. At all."

A little presumptuous? Completely without merit?  Definitely looks a little bit more harsh when family is put in there.

What's my point? I think some people saw that god could easily be substituted in that sentence with many other words, and although it was not in direct context to the thread (AA & belief in god), it would be a correct statement. Others cannot look past the fact that "god" is the word in that statement, and took offense to the statement because of that. Being an atheist, I have a hard time looking past god in that statement as well. I think belief in god is ridiculous, like others here. What I do not believe is that someone having a belief in a god, and the human support system that usually comes with that,  is always detrimental to that person as an individual. I think that some people who are atheist do believe that. I think they cannot look past the fact that they know there is no god, and because of that, any claims to someone's faith being a positive are taken as being completely false to these people, and are attacked.
I think the notion of god is ridiculous, but I don't feel that faith in a god, and religion are always a bad thing for individuals. Which is why I think the reply to both of the above posts was so appropriate and summarizes my own thoughts very well:

"I don't think we should presume to know what helps people through recovery or any trying time in their lives.  Each person gets through things in their own way.  Let's not pretend to know what works for everyone, we need to make sure we aren't saying the same thing to the religious that we don't want them saying to us."

That all being said, I would like religion to go the way of the dinosaurs. I simply have respect (at least outwardly) for other people's beliefs as long as they are not trying to force their beliefs upon me.

You picked the exact spot of derailment.  Yes, what we did through post after post was replace God with other words, it didn't reach the desired outcome and got a little  :rant: .  It's all over now.  We are back to being nice.
In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. (Kathy Norris)
They say I have ADHD but I think they are full of...oh, look a kitty!! (unknown)

Loffler

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"What if I substitute another word for "god" in the first post?

Then you will be able to construct an endless variety of sentences, some of which are true and some of which are false depending on what word you decide to substitute.

AlP

I've been through chemical dependency recovery programs. I've looked into AA. It is a religious organization. In fact, in my mind it actually is a religion in its own right. They have belief in a higher power, prayer, indoctrination, ritual, dogma, etc. Look into their 12 step program if you're interested, it's all on the web.

There was a court case in New York some years ago where the court described the AA doctrinal writings as "unequivocally religious". That's good ammunition if you want to ensure you get secular treatment in a chemical dependency program.

For atheists who need help with their alcohol abuse or chemical dependency, there are secular alternatives to AA. You can get counseling from a psychotherapist who specializes in chemical dependency. Psychiatrists can prescribe drugs that can help you get off the sauce (in fact it's very important to do that, alcohol is one of the few drugs where the withdrawal can kill you). There are also secular group sessions. The important thing is to permanently stop drinking. The hardest part is making a commitment to do that and the best way to go about that while avoiding religious nonsense is IMHO to see a therapist once every couple of weeks or so. The therapists will generally recommend AA. Just tell them you think AA is "unequivocally religious" and that you want secular treatment. They can't say no to that.
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

Ihateyoumike

Quote from: "AlP"For atheists who need help with their alcohol abuse or chemical dependency, there are secular alternatives to AA.

Here's one I found: http://secularsobriety.org/
Prayers that need no answer now, cause I'm tired of who I am
You were my greatest mistake, I fell in love with your sin
Your littlest sin.