Title: Rid the human concious of religous beliefs!
Post by: kaze420 on September 30, 2010, 09:37:49 PM
Post by: kaze420 on September 30, 2010, 09:37:49 PM
CHEMISTRY WITH CHARISMA
you do understand that you cannot build a theory with negative evidence?
50/50 flip
heads, potential for something
tails, absolute nothingness
keep flipping
keep flipping
you WILL get potential for something, why? because we REALLY exist , nothing can be proven to exist outside of existence itself
this is the paradox of existence
some oc,
reality encompasses existence.
existence encompasses reality.
If love is clear, then I see through
Sunday: worship god and attend church
logic: give thanks to the sun because, we revolve and evolve around it.
im the producer,im the witness, watching my movie play out
I am her feathers; she’s fly, flyer than you and flyer than me.
I love her, she loves me too. I love her three times
To me 'GOD'= mother nature+ father time+ subconscious love. Mother nature doesn’t care about worship, but, she would like to be respected at least, no littering please! Try to not waste your time with hate, spread love around.
You want a description? Her body's sickening, I can be her prescription, I can be her physician. I can make world peace?
Man talks with god 2000 years ago: blessed prophet
Man talks with god today: crazy nutcase
but, really,
I can see why some think reality is an illusion of sort. A space/time that the observer can really interact with. It all seems to make to much sense, in the sense that you literally, sense reality. This leads to idea that there is a potential purpose that exists outside of reality that governs the laws of reality in the universe. The meshing of everything in existence gives the observer a sense of oneness with the universe, because, as a whole, existence is that ONE flip that lands on potential, rather then non-existent potential(absolute nothingness).
i get the impression that this universe had a beginning, this is proven by radiation from heat, during the initial reaction, it just wasn't conscious of it's own reality until it evolved a consciousness. The human consciousness is the most important we know, because, it's our own. An observer is born into reality with an individual consciousness. We assume that when an individual consciousness dies, that because they became conscious of reality, they can never become unconscious of it. Freewill is relative to the observer. They can think they have freewill or not. 'Nothing' can be proven to exist outside reality of the universe.
MY explanation to existence is simple, we exist because the universe exists. The universe exists because it just does. The potential of the observers reality is reviled through an observers applied ideas to reality, the ideas that work pass on through generations, as well as the ideas that don't work, not to an absolute truth, because frankly the only 'absolute' truth is that existence exists, instead of nothing existing.
Something expanded from 'absolute nothingness' to create a space/time reality. The expansion was caused by a reaction. The reaction was because, 'absolute nothingness' can't exist. There is always potential for something to exist, like the universe. This is proven true by our existence.
again, infinity is a human created idea. we can not fully comprehend what infinity is, nor can we fully
comprehend what nothingness is.
we can only reason on what is. it really goes no farther then that.
we can theorize on infinity because we know that pi is a never ending sequence.. but can we prove it? no, are life spans are limited.
How can you get something, from 'absolute nothingness'? We have to assume that something can come from 'absolute nothingness'. This is explained by our existence.
'Absolute nothingness' is only an idea. It is the fact that 'absolute nothingness' can never exist, that something exists.
life is nothing more then potential for progression. you want something to change, then create ideas and apply them to reality. the purpose is what you make of it. maybe your in poverty so your current purpose is to intake energy. maybe you have a test due so your current purpose is to study.
the universe is relevant to the observer in the sense that the observer can manipulate the universe to their advantage through applied ideas. although with many separate observers it is probable that when you manipulate something, even without the intention, it can possibly effect another observer.
life is not about trying to become one with the universe or find the light, it is about trying to evolve with it. spiritual thinking is not going to advance humanity or unlock an awakening within.
because, how else does something come about from nothing? the only explanation is there is always potential for existence.
50/50 flip, eventually you will get something, this is proven because we exist.
its the forces of nature which govern evolution in the universe, its up to the observer to understand them correctly(science). not for nature to understand itself, because obviously it can or it wouldn't exist
booooooooooop
God is just an observer created idea, it can't be proven fact in reality, therefore it is ALWAYS irrelevant in reality, it can only be contemplated.
If you came into existence earlier in reality, say as a farmer, wouldn't you pray for rain to support your crops. Now, we have the ability to manipulate water to fit our needs. Look to the heavens, water comes down from above to fuel us! praise the existence of the universe! praise the existence of water!
bible- there will be end times, an 'apocalypse of sort you could say', an end to all existence..
logic- there will be end times, be from universal randomness(say an asteroid hits) or when humanity destroys itself or it's environment (or maybe we discover a way to exist outside of earth) and human consciousness can no longer exist within reality because, the earth environment is the only place known to support the existence of conscious reasoning life forms.
more re:
competing realities? are you saying an individuals consciousness is not part of the same reality as another individuals consciousness? im talking about human consciousness not alligator consciousness. im talking about consciousness in reality, not that reality is conscious of itself, which it is because, as observers we can see reality is real.
idols of mind, good read, appreciated
no, im not angry, im just expressing my view of reality. this belief in a 'god' or 'all' is contemplated, i might be sure, by all observers. But when you just accept reality and accept that reality is conscious it exists, that reality will never be unconscious it exists.. walah, there is your 'eternal life' or 'truth' that, REALITY KNOWS IT EXISTS BECAUSE IT CAN OBSERVE ITSELF EXISTING. there is no proof that something exists outside reality. reality encompasses existence.
/Jesus
Jesus- i am god in flesh, i will have everlasting life, believe in what i say and you will to..
logic- i exist because i have an individual consciousness in reality. I will never be unconscious to reality once i am conscious that it exists. Believe that the universe is conscious that it exists and it will always be conscious it exists..
that is the paradox of existence
debate the believers!!! use actual knowledge, CALL THEM OUT, even if they dont ask for it, give it to them
1. IDOLS OF THE TRIBE.These tendencies toward intellectual error derive from the nature of humanity in general:
a. Common Sense. The tendency to rely upon limited assumptions without verifying them as established truths.
b. Beliefs. Man has a tendency to support his personal beliefs.
C. Wishful Thinking. Wishful thinking is the tendency to believe what one wishes to believe.
d. Overgeneralization. The tendency to jump to conclusions on the basis of first impressions.
e. Ultimate Causes. The tendency to describe the cause of a thing without verifying this assumed cause.
2. IDOLS OF THE CAVE. These tendencies toward intellectual error derive from the nature of the individual man.
a. Insularity. The tendency to overemphasize the area of knowledge or the subject with which one is familiar.
b. Conservatism. The tendency to admire and prefer the past.
c. Novelty The opposite of Conservatism is Novelty, the tendency to admire and prefer anything new.
d. Authority. Authority is often based on the tendency to accept authoritative propositions without critically evaluating the proposition.
e. Inertia. The tendency to bypass intellectually difficult problems.
3. IDOLS OF THE MARKET PLACE. These tendencies towards intellectual error derive from the act of human communication.
a. Meaningless Words. The tendency to create words which are so general that they become meaningless to others.
b. Double-Meaning Words. The tendency not to clarify the specific meaning in which a word is employed.
c. Personal Definitions. The tendency to employ words whose meanings are entirely personal.
d. Verbalisms. The tendency to attribute significance to insignificant words or phrases.
e. Jargon. The tendency to accept large words which transcend one's understanding.
4. IDOLS OF THE THEATER. These tendencies towards intellectual error derive from the things one has learned in the past.
a. Experimentation. The tendency which derives from the dogmatism and rigidity in one's learning that leads toward the acceptance of propositions that are not verifiable by the senses.
b. Superstition. The tendency to interpret all of reality in terms of religious authoritative beliefs.
BACONS, IDOLS OF THE MIND
So you're having a debate and your argument just isn't working. You're being accused of ad homs, strawmanning, and red herrings. What the fuck are these people talking about?
Let me tell you then.
A logical fallacy is an approach to making an argument or point by breaking rules that are known to not be sound in reasoning and logic. There are many many of these fallacies but I'll list and describe some of the main ones.
Ad Hominem (the argument against the man)
Attacking the person's character instead of attacking the argument.
Examples:
"Why should I listen to your opinion on philosophy, you barely graduated high school."
"You think you are capable of debating evolutionary theory while you sit there and smoke weed all day?"
Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc (After this, therefore, because of this)
This one is a favorite of mine. Drawing a conclusion that two or more events are related when there is no real proof they are.
Examples:
"We ate fish tacos last night and this morning my head was pounding. Fish tacos give me headaches I guess" (the person isn't qualified to conclude fish tacos were definitely the cause of the headache)
"I had a dream I won the lotto, so I bought 20 scratch off tickets and one ended up being a winner for 500 bucks! I must be psychic."
circular logic (The conclusion of the argument is the same as the premise)
Examples:
"The bible is the word of God because it says so in the bible."
Ad baculum (appeal to the stick or force)
An argument where force, coercion, or the threat of force is used to justify the conclusion.
Examples:
"If you don't repent your sins you will burn for eternity in hell, therefore you MUST repent."
"Don't argue with the king's policies or he will lock you up and toss away the key. Therefore keep your mouth shut."
Ad lapidem (throwing stones)
Dismissing a statement as absurd without giving reason why it is absurd.
Examples:
"You don't believe in a divine being? That's just fuckin' retarded!"
"You don't think marijuana is addictive? Are you crazy!? Pull your head out of your ass."
Untestability fallacy
Argument based on assertions that cannot be tested.
Examples:
"You're not old enough to really understand life."
"Eating beans prouts may not kill you today, but one day you may eat a poisonous one and die. Therefore you should just avoid eating bean sprouts."
"All atheists secretly believe in a god."
Red Herring
An attempt to divert the argument or change the subject
Examples:
Person A- "Bush should have been tried as a war criminal."
Person B- "What about all the other people in the world that commit crimes and get away with it? What about that justice not served? In fact, the murder rate in Romania is bla bla yack yack....."
loaded question
Asking a question that presupposes something that isn't yet proven.
Examples:
"Do you still beat children up with baseball bats?"
"Why is Obama afraid to admit he was born in Kenya?"
Straw Man
Misrepresenting a persons argument in such a way it would be easy to refute. Beating up the straw man.
Examples:
"Of course evolution isn't true. No one has ever seen a reptile turn into a bird."
"Liberals just want a big nanny state."
Ad Populum (appeal to the people)
Concluding an argument is true because a majority of people believe it to be true.
Examples:
"Most people in the US believe marijuana is a dangerous drug therefore it is."
"Majority of the world believes there is a divine being, they can't all be wrong."
Subjectivist Fallacy
Using the fact that one wants to believe something to be true as evidence of it's truth.
Examples:
"We are all beings of spirit and light."
Person A-"We are an electro-chemical system."
Person B-"That may be true to you, but that's not true to me. That's just your opinion."
negative proof (argument from ignorance)
Appealing to lack of proof of the negative. X is true because there is no proof X is false.
Examples:
"There is no evidence Glenn Beck didn't rape and kill a woman in 1984."
"You can't prove god doesn't exist!"
There are many many more but these are some of the most common. If you're in a debate and you see these tactics being used, call them out on their fallacies.
Like you can’t just 'wish' osama bin laden dead, someone has to go and shoot him (if he is still really alive) magic doesn't make sense in today’s terms. maybe back with Jesus that was acceptable, but, I’m protected everywhere therefore no need for 'magic touch by an angel'
Protected everywhere, like, even if I die, I know for a fact ill still be conscious somewhere, read near-death experience stories, because, i remembered mine from when I was like 5. Its like 'god' takes your conscious into 3rd person so you don’t feel the pain when death is 'eminent'. still thinking crazy
you do understand that you cannot build a theory with negative evidence?
50/50 flip
heads, potential for something
tails, absolute nothingness
keep flipping
keep flipping
you WILL get potential for something, why? because we REALLY exist , nothing can be proven to exist outside of existence itself
this is the paradox of existence
some oc,
reality encompasses existence.
existence encompasses reality.
If love is clear, then I see through
Sunday: worship god and attend church
logic: give thanks to the sun because, we revolve and evolve around it.
im the producer,im the witness, watching my movie play out
I am her feathers; she’s fly, flyer than you and flyer than me.
I love her, she loves me too. I love her three times
To me 'GOD'= mother nature+ father time+ subconscious love. Mother nature doesn’t care about worship, but, she would like to be respected at least, no littering please! Try to not waste your time with hate, spread love around.
You want a description? Her body's sickening, I can be her prescription, I can be her physician. I can make world peace?
Man talks with god 2000 years ago: blessed prophet
Man talks with god today: crazy nutcase
but, really,
I can see why some think reality is an illusion of sort. A space/time that the observer can really interact with. It all seems to make to much sense, in the sense that you literally, sense reality. This leads to idea that there is a potential purpose that exists outside of reality that governs the laws of reality in the universe. The meshing of everything in existence gives the observer a sense of oneness with the universe, because, as a whole, existence is that ONE flip that lands on potential, rather then non-existent potential(absolute nothingness).
i get the impression that this universe had a beginning, this is proven by radiation from heat, during the initial reaction, it just wasn't conscious of it's own reality until it evolved a consciousness. The human consciousness is the most important we know, because, it's our own. An observer is born into reality with an individual consciousness. We assume that when an individual consciousness dies, that because they became conscious of reality, they can never become unconscious of it. Freewill is relative to the observer. They can think they have freewill or not. 'Nothing' can be proven to exist outside reality of the universe.
MY explanation to existence is simple, we exist because the universe exists. The universe exists because it just does. The potential of the observers reality is reviled through an observers applied ideas to reality, the ideas that work pass on through generations, as well as the ideas that don't work, not to an absolute truth, because frankly the only 'absolute' truth is that existence exists, instead of nothing existing.
Something expanded from 'absolute nothingness' to create a space/time reality. The expansion was caused by a reaction. The reaction was because, 'absolute nothingness' can't exist. There is always potential for something to exist, like the universe. This is proven true by our existence.
again, infinity is a human created idea. we can not fully comprehend what infinity is, nor can we fully
comprehend what nothingness is.
we can only reason on what is. it really goes no farther then that.
we can theorize on infinity because we know that pi is a never ending sequence.. but can we prove it? no, are life spans are limited.
How can you get something, from 'absolute nothingness'? We have to assume that something can come from 'absolute nothingness'. This is explained by our existence.
'Absolute nothingness' is only an idea. It is the fact that 'absolute nothingness' can never exist, that something exists.
life is nothing more then potential for progression. you want something to change, then create ideas and apply them to reality. the purpose is what you make of it. maybe your in poverty so your current purpose is to intake energy. maybe you have a test due so your current purpose is to study.
the universe is relevant to the observer in the sense that the observer can manipulate the universe to their advantage through applied ideas. although with many separate observers it is probable that when you manipulate something, even without the intention, it can possibly effect another observer.
life is not about trying to become one with the universe or find the light, it is about trying to evolve with it. spiritual thinking is not going to advance humanity or unlock an awakening within.
because, how else does something come about from nothing? the only explanation is there is always potential for existence.
50/50 flip, eventually you will get something, this is proven because we exist.
its the forces of nature which govern evolution in the universe, its up to the observer to understand them correctly(science). not for nature to understand itself, because obviously it can or it wouldn't exist
booooooooooop
God is just an observer created idea, it can't be proven fact in reality, therefore it is ALWAYS irrelevant in reality, it can only be contemplated.
If you came into existence earlier in reality, say as a farmer, wouldn't you pray for rain to support your crops. Now, we have the ability to manipulate water to fit our needs. Look to the heavens, water comes down from above to fuel us! praise the existence of the universe! praise the existence of water!
bible- there will be end times, an 'apocalypse of sort you could say', an end to all existence..
logic- there will be end times, be from universal randomness(say an asteroid hits) or when humanity destroys itself or it's environment (or maybe we discover a way to exist outside of earth) and human consciousness can no longer exist within reality because, the earth environment is the only place known to support the existence of conscious reasoning life forms.
more re:
competing realities? are you saying an individuals consciousness is not part of the same reality as another individuals consciousness? im talking about human consciousness not alligator consciousness. im talking about consciousness in reality, not that reality is conscious of itself, which it is because, as observers we can see reality is real.
idols of mind, good read, appreciated
no, im not angry, im just expressing my view of reality. this belief in a 'god' or 'all' is contemplated, i might be sure, by all observers. But when you just accept reality and accept that reality is conscious it exists, that reality will never be unconscious it exists.. walah, there is your 'eternal life' or 'truth' that, REALITY KNOWS IT EXISTS BECAUSE IT CAN OBSERVE ITSELF EXISTING. there is no proof that something exists outside reality. reality encompasses existence.
/Jesus
Jesus- i am god in flesh, i will have everlasting life, believe in what i say and you will to..
logic- i exist because i have an individual consciousness in reality. I will never be unconscious to reality once i am conscious that it exists. Believe that the universe is conscious that it exists and it will always be conscious it exists..
that is the paradox of existence
debate the believers!!! use actual knowledge, CALL THEM OUT, even if they dont ask for it, give it to them
1. IDOLS OF THE TRIBE.These tendencies toward intellectual error derive from the nature of humanity in general:
a. Common Sense. The tendency to rely upon limited assumptions without verifying them as established truths.
b. Beliefs. Man has a tendency to support his personal beliefs.
C. Wishful Thinking. Wishful thinking is the tendency to believe what one wishes to believe.
d. Overgeneralization. The tendency to jump to conclusions on the basis of first impressions.
e. Ultimate Causes. The tendency to describe the cause of a thing without verifying this assumed cause.
2. IDOLS OF THE CAVE. These tendencies toward intellectual error derive from the nature of the individual man.
a. Insularity. The tendency to overemphasize the area of knowledge or the subject with which one is familiar.
b. Conservatism. The tendency to admire and prefer the past.
c. Novelty The opposite of Conservatism is Novelty, the tendency to admire and prefer anything new.
d. Authority. Authority is often based on the tendency to accept authoritative propositions without critically evaluating the proposition.
e. Inertia. The tendency to bypass intellectually difficult problems.
3. IDOLS OF THE MARKET PLACE. These tendencies towards intellectual error derive from the act of human communication.
a. Meaningless Words. The tendency to create words which are so general that they become meaningless to others.
b. Double-Meaning Words. The tendency not to clarify the specific meaning in which a word is employed.
c. Personal Definitions. The tendency to employ words whose meanings are entirely personal.
d. Verbalisms. The tendency to attribute significance to insignificant words or phrases.
e. Jargon. The tendency to accept large words which transcend one's understanding.
4. IDOLS OF THE THEATER. These tendencies towards intellectual error derive from the things one has learned in the past.
a. Experimentation. The tendency which derives from the dogmatism and rigidity in one's learning that leads toward the acceptance of propositions that are not verifiable by the senses.
b. Superstition. The tendency to interpret all of reality in terms of religious authoritative beliefs.
BACONS, IDOLS OF THE MIND
So you're having a debate and your argument just isn't working. You're being accused of ad homs, strawmanning, and red herrings. What the fuck are these people talking about?
Let me tell you then.
A logical fallacy is an approach to making an argument or point by breaking rules that are known to not be sound in reasoning and logic. There are many many of these fallacies but I'll list and describe some of the main ones.
Ad Hominem (the argument against the man)
Attacking the person's character instead of attacking the argument.
Examples:
"Why should I listen to your opinion on philosophy, you barely graduated high school."
"You think you are capable of debating evolutionary theory while you sit there and smoke weed all day?"
Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc (After this, therefore, because of this)
This one is a favorite of mine. Drawing a conclusion that two or more events are related when there is no real proof they are.
Examples:
"We ate fish tacos last night and this morning my head was pounding. Fish tacos give me headaches I guess" (the person isn't qualified to conclude fish tacos were definitely the cause of the headache)
"I had a dream I won the lotto, so I bought 20 scratch off tickets and one ended up being a winner for 500 bucks! I must be psychic."
circular logic (The conclusion of the argument is the same as the premise)
Examples:
"The bible is the word of God because it says so in the bible."
Ad baculum (appeal to the stick or force)
An argument where force, coercion, or the threat of force is used to justify the conclusion.
Examples:
"If you don't repent your sins you will burn for eternity in hell, therefore you MUST repent."
"Don't argue with the king's policies or he will lock you up and toss away the key. Therefore keep your mouth shut."
Ad lapidem (throwing stones)
Dismissing a statement as absurd without giving reason why it is absurd.
Examples:
"You don't believe in a divine being? That's just fuckin' retarded!"
"You don't think marijuana is addictive? Are you crazy!? Pull your head out of your ass."
Untestability fallacy
Argument based on assertions that cannot be tested.
Examples:
"You're not old enough to really understand life."
"Eating beans prouts may not kill you today, but one day you may eat a poisonous one and die. Therefore you should just avoid eating bean sprouts."
"All atheists secretly believe in a god."
Red Herring
An attempt to divert the argument or change the subject
Examples:
Person A- "Bush should have been tried as a war criminal."
Person B- "What about all the other people in the world that commit crimes and get away with it? What about that justice not served? In fact, the murder rate in Romania is bla bla yack yack....."
loaded question
Asking a question that presupposes something that isn't yet proven.
Examples:
"Do you still beat children up with baseball bats?"
"Why is Obama afraid to admit he was born in Kenya?"
Straw Man
Misrepresenting a persons argument in such a way it would be easy to refute. Beating up the straw man.
Examples:
"Of course evolution isn't true. No one has ever seen a reptile turn into a bird."
"Liberals just want a big nanny state."
Ad Populum (appeal to the people)
Concluding an argument is true because a majority of people believe it to be true.
Examples:
"Most people in the US believe marijuana is a dangerous drug therefore it is."
"Majority of the world believes there is a divine being, they can't all be wrong."
Subjectivist Fallacy
Using the fact that one wants to believe something to be true as evidence of it's truth.
Examples:
"We are all beings of spirit and light."
Person A-"We are an electro-chemical system."
Person B-"That may be true to you, but that's not true to me. That's just your opinion."
negative proof (argument from ignorance)
Appealing to lack of proof of the negative. X is true because there is no proof X is false.
Examples:
"There is no evidence Glenn Beck didn't rape and kill a woman in 1984."
"You can't prove god doesn't exist!"
There are many many more but these are some of the most common. If you're in a debate and you see these tactics being used, call them out on their fallacies.
Like you can’t just 'wish' osama bin laden dead, someone has to go and shoot him (if he is still really alive) magic doesn't make sense in today’s terms. maybe back with Jesus that was acceptable, but, I’m protected everywhere therefore no need for 'magic touch by an angel'
Protected everywhere, like, even if I die, I know for a fact ill still be conscious somewhere, read near-death experience stories, because, i remembered mine from when I was like 5. Its like 'god' takes your conscious into 3rd person so you don’t feel the pain when death is 'eminent'. still thinking crazy
Title: Re: Rid the human concious of religous beliefs!
Post by: DropLogic on September 30, 2010, 09:49:29 PM
Post by: DropLogic on September 30, 2010, 09:49:29 PM
You're kind of preaching to the choir.
It is spelled "consciousness".
oh and TL;DR
It is spelled "consciousness".
oh and TL;DR
Title: Re: Rid the human concious of religous beliefs!
Post by: Ihateyoumike on September 30, 2010, 11:22:27 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on September 30, 2010, 11:22:27 PM
Quote from: "DropLogic"You're kind of preaching to the choir.
It is spelled "consciousness".
oh and TL;DR
Lol.
Only made it about a third of the way through this one. Moving on...