http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40272168
I don't know how much coverage this story has got internationally. Basically, a tower block of apartments set on fire and the whole building went up in flames very very quickly. There are currently 17 dead but many more missing so the death toll is expected to rise.
There are huge questions being asked about why the building went up in flames so quickly. Buildings are supposed to be designed with measures that contain any fire in a small area giving people time to get to safety and in fact the safety advice in the block itself told people to remain in their rooms. There are suggestions that recent renovations including the addition of some new plastic cladding maybe to blame.
It's an awful story for all those involved and I hope the right people get convicted over it, especially if it turns out the letting company cut corners or made poor safety decisions.
Seems to be getting some coverage abroad.
This is one of those events that should never have happened. So far it looks increasingly like bad management and poor funding - the national government's heads should be as much on the block as anyone else's here.
It is not the first time, have they got the guts and honesty to make it the last?
They are calling for corporate manslaughter, but that only counts if the regulations were ignored. If the regulations were inadequate that is a whole other ball-game. I await all the excuses and passing of the buck that senior management, corporate or governmental, local and national, in such cases are so good at. The middle and lower ranks will probably carry the can again.
But, like in Manchester, there are some tales of good work, voluntary and professional, as well as the harrowing tales of the dead and injured and, especially, kids waving in windows with fire behind them.
The people may be rehoused but a community is broken, I hope the survivors get the chance to rebuild whatever links are left.
Yes, one positive that is coming out of such a tragic event is the way the community has rallied round. I saw earlier on the news that they were now having to turn donations away as so many people had come forward with clothes, food, toiletries etc and they were having trouble sorting them all.
It's getting coverage in the US as far as I can tell (I'm in Turkey right now but watching US news). Really awful, and the newsletter that the association put out a few months before accusing their landlord of negligence seems pretty damning. Clearly something was done wrong if the fire spread that quickly.
Quote from: Firebird on June 15, 2017, 07:11:23 PM
It's getting coverage in the US as far as I can tell (I'm in Turkey right now but watching US news). Really awful, and the newsletter that the association put out a few months before accusing their landlord of negligence seems pretty damning. Clearly something was done wrong if the fire spread that quickly.
Yes, there has been considerable coverage of the complaints and vomments of the residents that were, basicsly, thrown out by the company managing the builfing. The local council, the building owners, did not have the resources to "police" the matter adquately. This, in turn, is lblamed on Tory policies that have reduced local council funding and authority. Claims are also being made that these management companies are making huge profits at a risk to the residents' lives.
Many years ago London suffered "Rachmanisn (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Rachman)". This was not a similar situation, Rachman and other large landlords squeezed every penny they could out of their tenants then physically abused and evicted them when they could not pay more. This is not a direct parallel but, in terms of greedy people v those just trying to live, I can see some parallels being drawn. Rachmanism rose out of the London Slum Clearances after WW2, when the massive tower blocks were built to accomodate those whose low quality, overcrowded, housing was demolished. Can't remember but, no doubt, the developers made a fat profit then as well. Lots of prime London land up for grabs for a start.
So, like in almost any other large city where the overall government is anti social housing and pro private profit London has the same problems - in sone ways - as towns in Bangladesh, the rural parts of China, some states in South America and, probably, the "projects" and trailer parks of America itself.
Will this disaster cause enough of a wave to effect the billions of pounds worth of changes needed to social and low grade private housing in the whole country? With Brexit looming? Without a political party worthy of government? With arses being covered and cans being dodged at every level?
Just hoping the judge appointed for the public enquirey sf a person of honour, honesty and integrity and is given adequate authority to hold even the highest up to scrutiny. But I'll not hold me breath if the present government appointed him.
It was covered here in the US quite extensively. I think in the beginning there was suspicion it was terror related...the story is horrible. At our yoga class last night our instructor has us sit in silence for a few moments in honor of the victims, such horrendous footage. We were all watching the news before class...
I'm sure there is going to be some heads rolling due to the oversight on this. I just hope it's the people who are actually responsible who take the blame.
Quote from: Father Bruno on June 15, 2017, 08:37:04 PM
It was covered here in the US quite extensively. I think in the beginning there was suspicion it was terror related...the story is horrible. At our yoga class last night our instructor has us sit in silence for a few moments in honor of the victims, such horrendous footage. We were all watching the news before class...
I'm sure there is going to be some heads rolling due to the oversight on this. I just hope it's the people who are actually responsible who take the blame.
The trouble is that it would appear that there has been nothing illegal done at all. It's just insane building regulations.
There are reports that a cheaper cladding was used in place of the fire resistant stuff. The price difference for the whole building to be glad in the correct stuff would have only been an extra £5000.
Quote from: Claireliontamer on June 16, 2017, 09:19:34 PM
There are reports that a cheaper cladding was used in place of the fire resistant stuff. The price difference for the whole building to be glad in the correct stuff would have only been an extra £5000.
Yes, and the only vomments reported from the company was, "We do not recognise that figure."
So, was it £1000 or £10 000 or what? But that still sounds a tacit admittsnce that saving a few quid out of millions was the reason for endangering all those people. Still, money saved might nean extra profits or bonuses . . .
Now, if the same standards were employed elsewhere who will end up paying for the job to be re-done propetly I wonder? I am guesding that cladding was put on with a bolt-gun, not Rawl plugs and screws - removal may be destructive.
In 2017 there is no excuse for a high rise like that going up in flames. Shoddy building, and the city code inspectors (or whatever they are called in London) really failed if they let the building be built without adequate safeguards, such as water sprinklers. Surely oversight has improved since 1666.
I was aware of it. On a side note, now whenever something happens in London I get itchy that someone has up and killed Siz before he had a chance to repent. ;) Anyway, it's a terrible tragedy and it seems one that could have been prevented.
Quote from: Ali on June 17, 2017, 02:21:34 AM
I was aware of it. On a side note, now whenever something happens in London I get itchy that someone has up and killed Siz before he had a chance to repent. ;) Anyway, it's a terrible tragedy and it seems one that could have been prevented.
Hi, Ali, long time no see. Glad you are still around.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 17, 2017, 02:41:54 AM
Quote from: Ali on June 17, 2017, 02:21:34 AM
I was aware of it. On a side note, now whenever something happens in London I get itchy that someone has up and killed Siz before he had a chance to repent. ;) Anyway, it's a terrible tragedy and it seems one that could have been prevented.
Hi, Ali, long time no see. Glad you are still around.
Good to see you too! It's nice to check in with my old peeps.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCiRbDCW0AA7Dzl.jpg)
A picture of the dogs who are helping out with their special heat proof boots.
The tempers are getting more frayed by the day on this but it is going to take a while before any resk investigation can be carried out and blame apportioned.
Meanwhile crowd funding and other sources are raising increduble amounts, one oerson raied over a million on her ow. But, as tgey gave said, it heeds experienced people to control such funds or it can get lost in admin etc. At least, this time, most of the banks and insurance companies have got their arses in gear and, hopefully, are being helpful rather than obstructive and beaurocratic. One insurance agency had "fast response vehicles" on site today.
These are people in the lower incone bracket, if at all, who have lost everything, including credit and debit cards, driving licences, passports, immigration documents and much more besides. They needed help two days ago, not next week.
Even the editor of the Spectator, centre right wing, volunteered that Theresa May is on very insecure ground after not speaking to the victims on her first visit. That she is wary of "unscripted discussion with members if the public on camera" just reinforces that she is not suitable for the job to me, let alone the other stuff.
Can't see her lasting the year out but the alternative? Shudder. We need one of those "governnent of national unity" things that include all parties - not that they work in most places.
Chancellor Philip Hammond is now saying that the type of cladding on the tower block is banned in the UK, as well as in other countries.
QuoteThe cladding used at Grenfell Tower was banned in the UK, chancellor Philip Hammond believes. He told the BBC's Andrew Marr:
My understanding is that the cladding in question, this flammable cladding which is banned in Europe and the US, is also banned here. That's my understanding."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/18/grenfell-tower-fire-may-under-pressure-after-angry-exchanges-in-no-10-live-updates
Rekt
Seems that type of cladding can be used on buildings up to 22 metres high - as high as a free standing or vehicle mounted fire ladder can reach. In Germany the limit is 15 metres.
If it is a bznned product for that use now to find out if the regulations had loopholes,who specified the that type, was he or she competent to write the spec, was it written on instruction from a more senior officer, were the company trying to save money, were the suppliers aware it would be used on a tower block, if they were does that make them complicit in the cause of the disaster...
Will the laws be re-written to ensure such never happens again?
I very much hope they stream this public inquirey on line.
Tagline: Built By Trump
The government have picked their judge for the inquirey, they gave picked retired judge, Sir Martin Moore-Bick , well versed in ckmmercial kaw and in desking with technical matters - and disliked for upholding a case for a council and against residents. He has experience in shipping fires etc but seems very thin on knowledge of large groups of people. A "patrician establishment" man is how one commentator described him.
It seems he will be apptoaching it on the technical aspects:
QuoteSir Martin Moore-Bick said the probe could be limited to the cause, how it spread, and preventing a future blaze.
He was speaking after travelling to the site of the fire in North Kensington and meeting some of the survivors.
Some Grenfell residents have said they were unhappy at not being involved in Sir Martin's appointment.
The judge said his meeting with survivors was "very useful".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40446579
What of the stories about the concerns of residents on how the work was done and other anecdotal evidence? It will be an inquiry based on a narrow remit.
I have a feeling that this choice is going to cause problems.