I do not know if this is an universal occurrence or specific to UK but I would be very interested in opinions about it. I am talking about court cases involving sexual abuse of women which occurred many years ago but the woman or women have ony just made the accusation. The man is usually well known but now old, or even dead. I wonder why these women have waited so long to say anything and why they have spoken out now. It seems to me that there is no real proof and it is one word against another. A woman has only to prove she was in the same place as the accused man at the same time so there was opportunity and she could say anything and be backed up by other women with an eye to fame, financial gain or even the truth. What good does it do now ? I think there should be a time restriction on these accusations and after so long a case would not be considered or made public in any way. Thoughts ?????
There's a lot I want to say here and I don't even really know where to start.
There are a lot of reasons victims don't come forward. Looking at what happens to those that do is a good way to see why. The Brock Turner trail was most recently a stunning example of that.
Being abused is bad in a lot of ways. Being sexually abused is much worse. We're still in a society that thinks that women are supposed to be pure until marriage. Even in more progressive viewpoints, women are not supposed to be "sluts" the same way men are expected to be sluts. We also live in a society where a large amount of people blame the victim for the sexual assault. Most of these accusations that come out later are against men that in a position of power, and the women abused tend to not be. Another thing is that not every sexual assault case leads to justice because of many different reasons.
Now from the perspective of a woman who had just been abused, you're asking why they don't potentially ruin the rest of their lives, how people perceive them, how people treat them, and in many cases their ability to move up in their career... for the chance that the person who did it might receive justice. And that slim chance (even slimmer of a chance if the accused can afford really good lawyers), is only after a long, expensive, and public trial.
So why do they wait? For a lot of reasons. Even more than I listed.
There's a lot I could say, but I'm curious why you brought this up. Are you talking in general terms, or was there a specific case that caught your attention.
Hmm... Yes... My views on this matter don't take into account several emotional considerations people find... Unavoidable, I suppose.
I will see which way this thread goes and perhaps join in at a later time, preferably when I'm in a more careful mood than I am today.
I think the shame and guilt, though not deserved by the victim, are themselves very hard hurdles to cross. If you add in a personality that is loved and respected by a large part of the public, or who is in an authoritative position, you may have a "squared" effect. Perhaps the fear is multiplied rather than merely added.
If the abuse happens at a very young age and does not continue for a long period it can get pushed behind a memory barrier. Associated events and the life-time effects happen still but the event itself is "buried". How do you describe an event "buried" many years ago in a court of law? The circumstantial evidence, the grooming etc, are also memories from far back and unprovable.
But, if others with more "mature" memories come forward the less sure people may be pursuaded to have their say, which may help alter "the balance of evidence" against the accused. This will give still others confidence. But the court still has to be wary of mistaken identity, "false memory" and malicious claims etc, so no-one gets an easy ride.
We have a "statute of limitations" here. I forgot how long but it's "x" amount of years that you have to bring up an accusation case to court. Of course there is Bill Cosby who has been accused of this and the statute of limitations is long over from when he's been accused. But he still gets all this hate.
I could go into personal experiences. I've myself been...on the receiving end of uncomfortable circumstances with a girl. I never brought it up in court because I didn't feel valid on that thought. It was mostly the thought of "I've been blamed for it" which is different because from my experience, people respond to that with "well it's your fault" and when I'm talking about being on the receiving end, people call it rape. I could go into detail of what happened but it hurts too much.
Detail on the OP would be helpful, as circumstances for why people don't report are generally different for different demographics. I also have an unreported sexual assault that many would class as rape in my past, but I'm guessing my reasons for not reporting are pretty different than Apathy's.
Don't think there are any limitations, in the UK, on how long back these cases can be active.
Quote from: Pasta Chick on January 20, 2017, 06:25:08 PM
Detail on the OP would be helpful, as circumstances for why people don't report are generally different for different demographics. I also have an unreported sexual assault that many would class as rape in my past, but I'm guessing my reasons for not reporting are pretty different than Apathy's.
Good point there, PC, the age at which the abuse took place, for e.g., could be a big factor. Older people might weigh up the pros and cons. Little kids may suffer deeper problems, cannot rationalise. Then there is the relationship . . .
The statute of limitations in these cases differs from state to state, and differs if the matter is handled in civil or criminal courts. There is no national standard on this.
I would think that some women just want to stay out of the limelight after an event occurs, and then after years they rethink their position. Just a hunch, however.
I think, simply put, the burden of reporting very often outweighs the pain of letting it all go, for a lot of reasons. When the rapest attempts to move to position where they could inflict harm, or when numerous others accuse as well, the weight of that burden shifts.
In the UK in the not so distant past the reception victims of abuse got was aggressive, they were often made to feel it was their fault.
Now, thankfully, they get a more objective reception and there are trained police officers to work with them. That does mean the attitude can swing too far in their favour before all evidence is heard, public opinion is now much more on their side.
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
But it did mean that she would have been, effectively, be laughed out of court as a slut. Now there us more understanding that this can be a lasting symptom of the psychology of abuse victims.
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Hahaha. I'm just saying it looked like she abused them and possibly some missing elements.
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Hahaha. I'm just saying it looked like she abused them and possibly some missing elements.
Glouc is the
Champion of the typo
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I have just read your reply yo BP.
Get treatment.
OK, so I typoed, I have sight probs with the on-screen keyboard. That is no reason to joke about some-one who suffered from self-hatred all her life because those she felt she should be able to trust abused her.
Show a bit of compassion, if you are capable of it.
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Hahaha. I'm just saying it looked like she abused them and possibly some missing elements.
Glouc is the Champion of the typo
Heheh, it is endearing though. :grin:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 21, 2017, 03:43:32 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Hahaha. I'm just saying it looked like she abused them and possibly some missing elements.
Glouc is the Champion of the typo
Heheh, it is endearing though. :grin:
Yeah, pisses me off but too lazy to set up the keyboard or drag my carcass over to my NEW, and finally working, laptop. I do usually edit, but miss some. Centre of vison is made fuzzy by "floaters" in both eyes unless contrast is high. May also have macular problems it seems, optician was quite concerned yesterday. Hope it fixable, being without a car will effectively make me house-bound, no-where to store an electric buggy securely and my walking tends to be limited.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 21, 2017, 03:43:32 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Hahaha. I'm just saying it looked like she abused them and possibly some missing elements.
Glouc is the Champion of the typo
Heheh, it is endearing though. :grin:
How do you express that in a spoon though?
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 03:57:57 PMMay also have macular problems it seems, optician was quite concerned yesterday. Hope it fixable, being without a car will effectively make me house-bound, no-where to store an electric buggy securely and my walking tends to be limited.
There are two types of macular degeneration, and one of them is treatable, though the treatments are somewhat intimidating. I hope you get in and get treatment ASAP, because it really does help.
Quote from: Recusant on January 21, 2017, 04:58:39 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 03:57:57 PMMay also have macular problems it seems, optician was quite concerned yesterday. Hope it fixable, being without a car will effectively make me house-bound, no-where to store an electric buggy securely and my walking tends to be limited.
There are two types of macular degeneration, and one of them is treatable, though the treatments are somewhat intimidating. I hope you get in and get treatment ASAP, because it really does help.
Yeah, needles in the eyeballs at worse, lasers at best. Should have been logged 4 months ago at least, I have had trouble for years. Opticians are often just technicians in their attitudes, with poor diagnostic skills in my experience.
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I have just read your reply yo BP.
Get treatment.
OK, so I typoed, I have sight probs with the on-screen keyboard. That is no reason to joke about some-one who suffered from self-hatred all her life because those she felt she should be able to trust abused her.
Show a bit of compassion, if you are capable of it.
I wasn't joking about her. I was trying to be polite when I asked you to correct your typo. It just happens that I was trying to be polite to BP as well. I am capable of more compassion than you realize, don't get so worked up.
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I have just read your reply yo BP.
Get treatment.
OK, so I typoed, I have sight probs with the on-screen keyboard. That is no reason to joke about some-one who suffered from self-hatred all her life because those she felt she should be able to trust abused her.
Show a bit of compassion, if you are capable of it.
I wasn't joking about her. I was trying to be polite when I asked you to correct your typo. It just happens that I was trying to be polite to BP as well. I am capable of more compassion than you realize, don't get so worked up.
OK, but be more careful how you put things, the big grin automatically made it seem like some kind of sick joke to me. I thinkmitbwasnobvious that thisvwas an important example to me.
Next time just ask me to correct my post.
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 05:59:22 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I have just read your reply yo BP.
Get treatment.
OK, so I typoed, I have sight probs with the on-screen keyboard. That is no reason to joke about some-one who suffered from self-hatred all her life because those she felt she should be able to trust abused her.
Show a bit of compassion, if you are capable of it.
I wasn't joking about her. I was trying to be polite when I asked you to correct your typo. It just happens that I was trying to be polite to BP as well. I am capable of more compassion than you realize, don't get so worked up.
OK, but be more careful how you put things, the big grin automatically made it seem like some kind of sick joke to me. I thinkmitbwasnobvious that thisvwas an important example to me.
Next time just ask me to correct my post.
Ok will do.
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 03:58:52 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 21, 2017, 03:43:32 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 21, 2017, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: Apathy on January 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.
Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
Hahaha. I'm just saying it looked like she abused them and possibly some missing elements.
Glouc is the Champion of the typo
Heheh, it is endearing though. :grin:
How do you express that in a spoon though?
I have no idea. :notsure: You're the creative one...
Yikes! A needle in they eye! I don't think I could sit through that. :panic:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 21, 2017, 06:22:38 PM
Yikes! A needle in they eye! I don't think I could sit through that. :panic:
I know, the thought is terrifying, but it seems you don't feel a thing - just the vision of that pointed shiny spike approaching . . .
:devil:
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 21, 2017, 06:22:38 PM
Yikes! A needle in they eye! I don't think I could sit through that. :panic:
I know, the thought is terrifying, but it seems you don't feel a thing - just the vision of that pointed shiny spike approaching . . .
:devil:
Nope, nope, no way...
:o
Quote from: Firebird on January 20, 2017, 04:24:18 PM
There's a lot I could say, but I'm curious why you brought this up. Are you talking in general terms, or was there a specific case that caught your attention.
I had no particular interest in this, just a general thought about something which comes up quite often and sometimes seems very unfair. Like accused not being able to speak or being judged innocent but stigma likely to remain.
I am learning my way about this confusing [to me] forum and this was to see if I could start a new topic but the choice of subject is valid. This is the 2nd reply I have made to you, the first one failed and was a better reply. Never mind :)
Quote from: Gloucester on January 21, 2017, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 21, 2017, 06:22:38 PM
Yikes! A needle in they eye! I don't think I could sit through that. :panic:
I know, the thought is terrifying, but it seems you don't feel a thing - just the vision of that pointed shiny spike approaching . . .
:devil:
I have been treated for this for around 5 years now and am very grateful for that. Going to the dentist is MUCH worse! It is all in the mind and the treatment is very quick and usually painless. Anaesthetic drops are put in the eye and a small clip holds the eye open for a couple of minutes. You do not see needle coming and it is nothing, truly, all in the mind. The clip is soon removed and off you go.
Normal sight back as soon as effect of drops wears off (you should not drive yourself there alone for this reason). For about 4 months this treatment is monthly and then for 6 maybe 8 months, weekly. It arrests progress and I recommend 100% without hesitation.
My other eye is now affected but I'm having treatment much earlier so not unduly worried as I would be without treatment. Every 2 months at the moment. I have both eyes done at same time but it is OK. More like going to hairdressers than dentist. If you need it and can get it, do not hesitate, have it. You will not regret it.
I do not understand what I have written about timing !! To be clear .......
Treatment is never weekly. Monthly for about 4 months and every 6 to 8 weeks after that ie: every 2 months.
What ever country you are in if you have eye problems seeek medical, professional help and advice. For macular test each eye on a grid and if wavy lines or blurring get advice ASAP. I am a very experienced patient and happy to talk to anyone wanting any more info. Cheers.
Quote from: Lark on January 22, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
I do not understand what I have written about timing !! To be clear .......
Treatment is never weekly. Monthly for about 4 months and every 6 to 8 weeks after that ie: every 2 months.
What ever country you are in if you have eye problems seeek medical, professional help and advice. For macular test each eye on a grid and if wavy lines or blurring get advice ASAP. I am a very experienced patient and happy to talk to anyone wanting any more info. Cheers.
Got the grid - pretty much ok so far.
What you say suggests the treatment is ongoing indefinitely? No actual cure?
re eyes. Correct as far as I lnow. No cure bt arrests development
Society is very unforgiving. Blaming the victim is puts their collective conscience at rest, especially when the accused is a saint.
And after all, any woman who dresses provocatively is asking for it. Much like any man who wears a John Lennon shirt is asking to be shot by a crazed gunman hoping to grab the attention of his favorite actress.
Quote from: No one on January 24, 2017, 08:51:53 PM
Society is very unforgiving. Blaming the victim is puts their collective conscience at rest, especially when the accused is a saint.
And after all, any woman who dresses provocatively is asking for it. Much like any man who wears a John Lennon shirt is asking to be shot by a crazed gunman hoping to grab the attention of his favorite actress.
I'm not sure why this happens. When I try to tell my story, it usually ends up as "it sounds like you were stalking her" when really it seemed to be the other way around. However, as I get older, I see maybe it was all a misunderstanding.
I could go into detail about what I mean there but it would all be very embarrassing.
However, I have read this article below that may explain some of the attitudes people hold about "rape".
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201206/dominant-or-submissive-paradox-power-in-sexual-relations
Now if you read it, then you will remember the part where it says that woman may "unconsciously" attract men. Now whether it is deliberate or not means nothing to me, but what I'm getting at is that people may, consciously or unconsciously, realize this themselves. And thus when they see and hear the issue, they blame the woman because accepting any other idea challenges their world view, or view of themselves.
Now one thing I think the article doesn't mention is that fantasy is not something people always want to do. One mistake people make is thinking the mind is uniform, when in fact their are many different tunnels and contradictions.
This is an example of what makes me wonder: Rolf Harris indecent assault jury 'got it wrong' (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38729120)