I was searching the dictionary and I saw the word belief and it said "What someone values as true."
I had to think for a second and realized that not all Christians are using their religion to harm others. I truly felt this way because of my childhood. But even my family has calmed down a bit. There are some Christians that truly believe that Christianity is true. I think the reason they ignore the bad parts is because it hasn't processed in their minds yet. I usually don't quote it because I usually don't even talk about it. Plus some of the older people don't know the resources we have today. What are your opinions?
It's not something that I really take into account in forming an opinion of someone, at least not singularly. There are believers who are awesome, and others who are peices of shit. Just like there are non believers who are awesome, and others who are peices of shit. You can take someone like Joel Olesteen, who chooses to represent himself by faith, and I don't respect him but that's because he's a fear-mongering hypocrite, not because he's religious. I think it's different.
Whatever respect they show me, I return to them. Just because I believe there is no god, doesn't mean that I can not respect someone else's right to believe there is.
More or less the same for me. I respect everyone for what they achieve for the world.
But I will not tolerate prosetylising or evangelising of any kind.
If one earns my respect, then I respect that believer. I don't generally respect people I've never interacted with. My default is not to care one way or the other.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 14, 2016, 06:12:04 AM
If one earns my respect, then I respect that believer. I don't generally respect people I've never interacted with. My default is not to care one way or the other.
Same for me.
I can and have respected believers. Not for their belief, but that is just one part of them. People are not binary and no one is defined by just one thing.
A 50 or 60 some thing black man showed up at my garage sale today. He was wearing a Tee shirt (this is Florida) that had religious overtones. I engaged him in respectful conversation. He was proud to tell me that he had been a junkie until he got religion. God did not want him to be as druggie. It worked for him and I was most congratulatory that he had found his way out of the hellish drug culture, nine years clean.. You bet your booties that I respected that man. Never mind that his fix was a concentrated belief in Jesus,,, perhaps a mythical invention. It worked for him and I damned well respected that he is a first class citizen.
There are many who earn my respect, most of them don't talk about it a lot. The ones who stand in the streets shouting are rarely impressive.
I respect individuals. That respect is based on a lot of things. And, I can't help but think of my formerly Christian self. A lot of my opinions and actions have not changed. I just don't happen to believe in the supernatural any more. Does that mean I was not worthy of respect before?
Depends on the believer.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 18, 2016, 01:01:58 PM
Depends on the believer.
Ditto. Pretty much all I ask is that people try not to be assholes, and succeed most of the time (we all screw up now and then).
If someone shows me respect, I return it.
And vice versa.
If I send you $10, will you respect me for one week?
Quote from: Dredge on March 24, 2017, 07:35:24 AM
If I send you $10, will you respect me for one week?
Make it $1000 and I'll think about it :)
Quote from: Dredge on March 24, 2017, 07:35:24 AM
If I send you $10, will you respect me for one week?
No, respect is earned, not bought.
Give $10 a month to a charity like MSF or Save the Children and you will earn a little respect from me for that act.
Demonstrate a sincere understanding that there are evil and good people in every faction of belief and unbelief and you will earn a lot more.
I can respect the person, but I just can't bring myself to respect belief in something for which no evidence exists. It seems so intellectually lazy and not genuine. If you told them that you go every Sunday to watch Jimi Hendrix jam in a cave by your house, they would laugh at you. Why do we have to respect utter nonsense? I hate that part of this agreement. Makes me crazy.
Quote from: atomgram on May 03, 2017, 05:21:23 PM
I can respect the person, but I just can't bring myself to respect belief in something for which no evidence exists. It seems so intellectually lazy and not genuine. If you told them that you go every Sunday to watch Jimi Hendrix jam in a cave by your house, they would laugh at you. Why do we have to respect utter nonsense? I hate that part of this agreement. Makes me crazy.
I always try to be respectful to the person, not always so much to the religion, but I do watch my tongue in certain company...although I have little patience for those who proselytize or want to force their religious views or beliefs on others, for them there is little respect and even less patience.
Recently I was on vacation in Honduras visiting the wife's family, and during part of the trip we stayed with a niece and nephew who also take care of my mother-in law.
The niece is wicked smart, and is actually a professor of mathematics at the university, and I enjoy not only her companionship, but also her cooking...she's also a damn good soccer and volleyball player.
She's also an evangelical, but very subdued and not at all preachy...when we would eat together she would usually be the last one to sit down and start eating while we were in her home because she was serving us, and often times there were other family members present so it would be a full table.
She would always bow her head and say a silent prayer to herself before eating, but everyone else at the table would go on talking, laughing and eating even though they are all catholic or fellow evangelical types, but I would always put my silverware down and stop eating while she did so out of respect.
One of the last meals we had together I did the same, and as she finished eating she reached over and slightly grasped my hand in what I took to be a show of thanks...she knows more or less that I'm a non-believer. I felt very close to her at that moment. Again my respect for her is boundless.
Funny part is on Easter Sunday everyone else in the family was at the local cathedral for the Easter mass and celebrations. Outdoor type of festival (I'll be posting some pictures soon as it's quite festive), started at 8am and ended around 12:30-1pm.
I went along with everyone that morning, but while they sat with my mother in-law up in front taking in the mass, I walked around and took in the sights, stopping at a couple coffee shops, reading my book, grabbing a light snack...the niece I mentioned, who as I said is evangelical had come with us to the cathedral and sat with the grandmother for awhile, but later she saw me sitting at an outdoor cafe right next to the cathedral and came and sat down next to me.
I bought her a coffee and we sat together for while, but then she took me walking and showed me some old parts of the city I hadn't seen before, as well as took my by her father's electronic shop.
While we were there her young niece who was about 6 years old was hanging out, so we took her with us on our walk...the three of us had fun together that Easter morning, stopping for more coffee and a snack for the little girl, and then strolling through the park.
I remember thinking at the time how ironic or funny the situation was, here we were an evangelical and an atheist enjoying easter morning together in beautiful Honduras...it was one of the more enjoyable moments of my trip.
Aw, Father Bruno, she can't help but love you! No matter what wickedness lays in your heart. :devil2:
I love your stories about Honduras and I can't wait for more pictures!
Quote from: Father Bruno on May 04, 2017, 02:21:51 PM
...
I remember thinking at the time how ironic or funny the situation was, here we were an evangelical and an atheist enjoying easter morning together in beautiful Honduras...it was one of the more enjoyable moments of my trip.
That's nice. :tellmemore:
Quote from: Magdalena on May 04, 2017, 04:25:36 PM
Quote from: Father Bruno on May 04, 2017, 02:21:51 PM
...
I remember thinking at the time how ironic or funny the situation was, here we were an evangelical and an atheist enjoying easter morning together in beautiful Honduras...it was one of the more enjoyable moments of my trip.
That's nice. :tellmemore:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMkTLm0Z.gif&hash=f1a857a54b78886a92f24925e984c95a9b5fc5cb)
p.s. hey mags, i think that be the same dude who don't like pupusas ;)
Quote from: Father Bruno on May 04, 2017, 06:22:59 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 04, 2017, 04:25:36 PM
Quote from: Father Bruno on May 04, 2017, 02:21:51 PM
...
I remember thinking at the time how ironic or funny the situation was, here we were an evangelical and an atheist enjoying easter morning together in beautiful Honduras...it was one of the more enjoyable moments of my trip.
That's nice. :tellmemore:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMkTLm0Z.gif&hash=f1a857a54b78886a92f24925e984c95a9b5fc5cb)
p.s. hey mags, i think that be the same dude who don't like pupusas ;)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/cc/e0/8e/cce08e4ddc38b89270cc7f3efaef27fc.gif)
The pupusa is perfect, if he doesn't like pupusas, that is fine because the pupusa will still be perfect even if he doesn't like them.
^^^true dat.... perfection doesn't change just because someone doesn't like it.
Quote from: Dragonia on May 04, 2017, 10:25:33 PM
^^^true dat.... perfection doesn't change just because someone doesn't like it.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2ouDWXa.gif&hash=0c0f66aefde22cb2396d43fbe4fc9aab7eab9886)
Power to the pupusa.
Often times my respect for believers goes flying out the fucking window...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fq0ay4us.jpg%3F1&hash=8a87d880d50ab615b7e287e3ba839713a94f3b83)
By the way I have no issues with Mrs Trump having posed nude at all, but the hypocrisy of assholes like Robertson really piss me off.
Quote from: MatureMcLeod on October 14, 2016, 12:57:15 AMI think the reason they ignore the bad parts is because it hasn't processed in their minds yet.
As a Progressive Christian before I finally turned over to atheism (well, that's a long story, but not particularly relevant here so moving on. lol) I can attest to this point. I was simply not even
comprehending the immoral atrocities of the Bible. It's as if my mind was programmed not to go there.
I was somehow able to look at the Leviticus laws to stone men who slept with other men and write it off for some of these reasons:
1. It's being taken out of context. The law referred to a particular time and it referred to a particular location - a temple.
2. The words that are commonly interpreted as homosexual in modern Bibles are not translated properly, and actually meant "male prostitutes".
Somehow, through all of that, I was not comprehending that a supposedly loving God was ordering people to be stoned. My mind was programmed so hard not to look that way, but only to preserve my view that homosexuality itself can not be wrong.
In terms of slavery, I'm not sure I even ever thought about it. My mind was so far gone, that I didn't even have any kind of justification for that one. I just simply didn't even acknowledge it in my mind.
Once my beliefs came crashing down, I was able to rationally look at it, and I just can't believe myself. I can not believe I ever thought like that.
The reason I cannot respect believers is that they throw out logic just to believe in something.
https://youtu.be/0gAeYxgwuSo
I don't believe in God but I believe in myself. I am not perfect however and neither is anybody else. And as soon as you dismiss all criticisms without acknowledging and saying you or god is above them is, to me, the signs of a dictatorship (or a cult, take your pick)
Quote from: Harmonie on August 27, 2017, 04:12:19 PM
Quote from: MatureMcLeod on October 14, 2016, 12:57:15 AMI think the reason they ignore the bad parts is because it hasn't processed in their minds yet.
As a Progressive Christian before I finally turned over to atheism (well, that's a long story, but not particularly relevant here so moving on. lol) I can attest to this point. I was simply not even comprehending the immoral atrocities of the Bible. It's as if my mind was programmed not to go there.
I was somehow able to look at the Leviticus laws to stone men who slept with other men and write it off for some of these reasons:
1. It's being taken out of context. The law referred to a particular time and it referred to a particular location - a temple.
2. The words that are commonly interpreted as homosexual in modern Bibles are not translated properly, and actually meant "male prostitutes".
Somehow, through all of that, I was not comprehending that a supposedly loving God was ordering people to be stoned. My mind was programmed so hard not to look that way, but only to preserve my view that homosexuality itself can not be wrong.
In terms of slavery, I'm not sure I even ever thought about it. My mind was so far gone, that I didn't even have any kind of justification for that one. I just simply didn't even acknowledge it in my mind.
Once my beliefs came crashing down, I was able to rationally look at it, and I just can't believe myself. I can not believe I ever thought like that.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I was once discussing with a Christian of some sort what they would do if God told them to kill their child. They flatly refused to accept that he could and it would be Satan attempting to fool them. I asked them who asked Abraham to kill his son. They said that was Old Testament and Jesus had come to show us a better way. I asked them that if the OT was wrong there was no Adam and Eve and therefore no original sin and no need for Jesus to be born. They said as best as I can recall words to the effect "Well Adam and Eve were true and Jesus came to deal with that but all the bad bits of the OT were added by Satan!" I swear it's easier to get a grip on wet soap!
It's probably easier to catch a greased piglet than work out how the dedicated religious mind works!
I knew a fundie Christian who though alcohol was evil and sinful - yet he drank cider. When it was pointed out that cider is an alcoholic drink he refused to accept it. When shown the % alcohol on the label he got really angry and stormed off. It is part of the same syndrome I think.
As the old saying goes, "There's none so blind as those who will not see."
I don't respect them at this very moment, as it only took a couple of days after Texas was hit by Harvey for the religious bullshit to hit the fucking fan.
Fire destroyed their home during Harvey. But a Virgin Mary statue survived (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/us/harvey-fire-statue-trnd/index.html)
God is fucking great isn't she? Billions and billions of dollars of damage, lives lost, tens of thousand of people uprooted from their homes, devastation beyond belief, and recovery will be years and years down the road...but god saved this fucking statue of Mary because she is so loving and powerful, and aren't miracles something.
I can't stand this shit, don't even understand why with all that's going on now, and the storm is still impacting the region, that they would even run with this ridiculous story...(Maybe the stone statue, actually half of it that appears left survived because it's fucking made out of stone?)
This story about the Columbia Road Baptist Church (http://countercurrentnews.info/2017/09/pastor-rapes-teen-church-asks-victim-to-apologize-to-pastors-wife/) , and one of their youth pastors named Brian Mitchell who was sentenced 10 years in prison for raping a 16 year old member of the church is beyond disgusting.
Not only did this piece of deplorable human garbage rape the young girl, but the church demanded an apology from the victim to the perps wife!
...After the youth pastor was arrested for repeatedly raping the unnamed teen girl, officials at the Columbia Road Baptist Church blamed and shamed the young victim, and forbid the family of the unnamed teenager from attending services until she apologize to the wife of youth pastor Brian Mitchell...
...The girl's mother said in court that church officials told her their family couldn't return to the church until she apologized to Mitchell's wife...
Once again I have a hard time respecting believers when I read something like this, especially when you read that current members have continued to support the youth pastor.
...And while church members blamed and shamed the teen for being raped, they showed sympathy for the rapist. The former youth pastor received around three dozen letters of support from church members...
This is sick, and yes it does cause me to be less tolerant of believers...especially those who try to enforce their beliefs on others, and offer apologetic bullshit in defense of pastors and churches like this one.
I can't muster up any respect for those believers.
Well, you have to understand. The real victim was a respected nember of the congregation when along comes this young trollop who tempts him by being attractive and friendly.
Just like the Moslem men who are tempted to sin by every women whose beauty they can see. It is all the woman's fault for merely being a woman! Temptresses all!
It seems the brain power of this flock isn't the equivalent of a wet match in a dark room.
Quote from: No one on September 14, 2017, 08:52:24 PM
It seems the brain power of this flock isn't the equivalent of a wet match in a dark room.
Like a fart in a thunderstorm?
Yet, sorrowfully, powerful enough in that sort of culture to leave a young lady feeling soiled and guilty.
In the possibility that she did "come on" to him he is still guilty of psychological, ethical and moral weakness and being totally unfit for any position of responsibility in any organisation.
Quote from: Father Bruno on September 14, 2017, 07:11:48 PM
This story about the Columbia Road Baptist Church (http://countercurrentnews.info/2017/09/pastor-rapes-teen-church-asks-victim-to-apologize-to-pastors-wife/) , and one of their youth pastors named Brian Mitchell who was sentenced 10 years in prison for raping a 16 year old member of the church is beyond disgusting.
Not only did this piece of deplorable human garbage rape the young girl, but the church demanded an apology from the victim to the perps wife!
...After the youth pastor was arrested for repeatedly raping the unnamed teen girl, officials at the Columbia Road Baptist Church blamed and shamed the young victim, and forbid the family of the unnamed teenager from attending services until she apologize to the wife of youth pastor Brian Mitchell...
...The girl's mother said in court that church officials told her their family couldn't return to the church until she apologized to Mitchell's wife...
Once again I have a hard time respecting believers when I read something like this, especially when you read that current members have continued to support the youth pastor.
...And while church members blamed and shamed the teen for being raped, they showed sympathy for the rapist. The former youth pastor received around three dozen letters of support from church members...
This is sick, and yes it does cause me to be less tolerant of believers...especially those who try to enforce their beliefs on others, and offer apologetic bullshit in defense of pastors and churches like this one.
What. The. Fuck.
What the hell is going on in their deranged minds? Is it because this youth
raper pastor is seen as an authority figure and so couldn't be in the wrong? That god is on his side?
Disgusting meatbags that belong in the garbage.
(https://scontent.fpoa4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21728561_1442607872474668_7545014843464091303_n.jpg?oh=65574dfc6fbb07e1d9d3395cdb0e73fe&oe=5A5654FC)
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! Sky cake.
This is sickening. What's even more unbelievable is that the people in this church are just like people all around us. Well, all around me anyway. And I've seen it happen.
They probably think this asshole is a good, god-fearing, family man.
The girl is probably a bit of a wild child, whose faith and morals are questionable.
Thats all they need. Who cares if she said NO. She was obviously leading him into temptation.
That all makes sense to me.
But what I don't get is the fact that the girl's family seemed to want to continue attending that church, as evidenced by the apology demand. Why in the HELL would they ever want to step foot in that shithole ever again? It makes me feel like the parents don't believe their daughter either.
There's a LOT of info missing from this short little article.
Quote from: Dragonia on September 15, 2017, 12:49:42 PM
This is sickening. What's even more unbelievable is that the people in this church are just like people all around us. Well, all around me anyway. And I've seen it happen.
They probably think this asshole is a good, god-fearing, family man.
The girl is probably a bit of a wild child, whose faith and morals are questionable.
Thats all they need. Who cares if she said NO. She was obviously leading him into temptation.
That all makes sense to me.
But what I don't get is the fact that the girl's family seemed to want to continue attending that church, as evidenced by the apology demand. Why in the HELL would they ever want to step foot in that shithole ever again? It makes me feel like the parents don't believe their daughter either.
There's a LOT of info missing from this short little article.
I can well inagine that the parents (and parents come in all grades from brilliant to evil), being the seemingly god-fearin' up-standing
shits citizens of god's country they possibly are, may also blame their daughter. It is not an uncommon scenario even over here.
Had this been my daughter, that church would have been razed to the ground! And the pastor would have been chum!