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Another Mass Shooting

Started by Recusant, October 02, 2017, 06:58:25 PM

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Dave

I feel your dismay there, Icarus. As you imply using srmed guards (and bullet proof back-packs) are an admittance of defeat, of ignoring the only civilised solution.

There was a sound clip on the radio ss I was reading that, if a rally in Florids with the female speaker "calling BS" on all the excuses for lax gun control, with a chorus of the same phrase from the audience.

Now there is a gun apologist trying to justify keeping guns. "We have to make sure mentally ill and bad guys don''t get guns..." being part of the pattern. So do you subject every gun owner to regular psychological testing to make sure they are not in danger of flipping, are maybe harbouring a festering grudge about an imagined insult to their person? I think it takes a degree of inherent paranoia and/or aggressiveness to want to own firearms for any other use than purely sporting, just the sort of person who should not be allowed to own them.

The argument, "Maybe we should ban trucks as well since they have killed so many in the hands of terrorists..." was also voiced.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

And, my obvious Trumpetine prediction has come true - "The FBI failed to catch the killer because they spent too much time and effort trying to frame me!"

Not sure about the exact structure of the FBI but guessing that those two very different types of investigation, local/criminal and national/political, use rather different resource pools. But, who cares about that if the unthinking masses can be gathered to your side against those dastardly federal types by misrepresenting things? Politics, ennit?

It is also perverting tragedy for personal gain.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Davin

#137
Quote from: Dave on February 18, 2018, 07:28:46 AMNow there is a gun apologist trying to justify keeping guns. "We have to make sure mentally ill and bad guys don''t get guns..." being part of the pattern. So do you subject every gun owner to regular psychological testing to make sure they are not in danger of flipping, are maybe harbouring a festering grudge about an imagined insult to their person? I think it takes a degree of inherent paranoia and/or aggressiveness to want to own firearms for any other use than purely sporting, just the sort of person who should not be allowed to own them.
Most pro gun people agree with the idea of not letting criminals or the severely mentally ill to get guns, but fewer want to take measures to do something about it. Like background checks and banning even personal sales without them.

Quote from: DaveThe argument, "Maybe we should ban trucks as well since they have killed so many in the hands of terrorists..." was also voiced.
At least it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle in public without a license which requires passing a test or two to show competency, something not true about guns in most states. That is how I usually respond to people saying something similar.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Davin on February 19, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
Like background checks and banning even personal sales without them.

We ought to at least start with this and also requiring some level of training.  Surely this would not be too burdensome.  If that works to reduce this type of event, great.  If not, go on with more restrictive methods.  But at least start with something.

Dave

Quote from: Davin on February 19, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
Quote from: Dave on February 18, 2018, 07:28:46 AMNow there is a gun apologist trying to justify keeping guns. "We have to make sure mentally ill and bad guys don''t get guns..." being part of the pattern. So do you subject every gun owner to regular psychological testing to make sure they are not in danger of flipping, are maybe harbouring a festering grudge about an imagined insult to their person? I think it takes a degree of inherent paranoia and/or aggressiveness to want to own firearms for any other use than purely sporting, just the sort of person who should not be allowed to own them.
Most pro gun people agree with the idea of not letting criminals or the severely mentally ill to get guns, but fewer want to take measures to do something about it. Like background checks and banning even personal sales without them.
Quote
[quoter=Dave]The argument, "Maybe we should ban trucks as well since they have killed so many in the hands of terrorists..." was also voiced.
At least it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle in public without a license which requires passing a test or two to show competency, something not true about guns in most states. That is how I usually respond to people saying something similar.

I have noticed that reluctance.

QuotePresident Donald Trump supports efforts to improve the federal background check system for gun purchases, the White House has said, less than a week after a school shooting in Florida resulted in the deaths of 17 people.

Now, let's see how he defines "improvement"!

I like the license argument, seennit before but forgotten it.

But . . . The person who passes the background test today may be a different personality, in the future, after being jilted, expelled, sacked or whatever. Perhaps there should be an annual retest, entirely at the gun owner's expence. That would help reduce unemployment. I don't think there will ever be an acceptable, to all, solution to this short of something close to a natiinal civil uprising.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Davin

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on February 19, 2018, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 19, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
Like background checks and banning even personal sales without them.

We ought to at least start with this and also requiring some level of training.  Surely this would not be too burdensome.  If that works to reduce this type of event, great.  If not, go on with more restrictive methods.  But at least start with something.
I think it will also reduce the amount of criminals having guns. Will it stop them? No, but it will make them more expensive because the black market is much more expensive than the legal market. And anything that increases those costs reduces the amount of criminals that can afford them.

And if they can just get a knife anyway... well good, I prefer my chances against a criminal with knife over a criminal with a gun. A nervous knife finger doesn't make the criminal accidentally stab someone. And the few times I've been on the wrong end of a gun during a robbery, there's not much scarier than a shaky hand with a finger on the trigger when the gun is pointed at my head.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Davin

Quote from: Dave on February 19, 2018, 04:36:54 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 19, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
Quote from: Dave on February 18, 2018, 07:28:46 AMNow there is a gun apologist trying to justify keeping guns. "We have to make sure mentally ill and bad guys don''t get guns..." being part of the pattern. So do you subject every gun owner to regular psychological testing to make sure they are not in danger of flipping, are maybe harbouring a festering grudge about an imagined insult to their person? I think it takes a degree of inherent paranoia and/or aggressiveness to want to own firearms for any other use than purely sporting, just the sort of person who should not be allowed to own them.
Most pro gun people agree with the idea of not letting criminals or the severely mentally ill to get guns, but fewer want to take measures to do something about it. Like background checks and banning even personal sales without them.
Quote from: DaveThe argument, "Maybe we should ban trucks as well since they have killed so many in the hands of terrorists..." was also voiced.
At least it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle in public without a license which requires passing a test or two to show competency, something not true about guns in most states. That is how I usually respond to people saying something similar.

I have noticed that reluctance.

QuotePresident Donald Trump supports efforts to improve the federal background check system for gun purchases, the White House has said, less than a week after a school shooting in Florida resulted in the deaths of 17 people.

Now, let's see how he defines "improvement"!

I like the license argument, seennit before but forgotten it.

But . . . The person who passes the background test today may be a different personality, in the future, after being jilted, expelled, sacked or whatever. Perhaps there should be an annual retest, entirely at the gun owner's expence. That would help reduce unemployment. I don't think there will ever be an acceptable, to all, solution to this short of something close to a natiinal civil uprising.
As much as I dislike Trump, he's got to do something right eventually... I mean, even by accident right?

If a license is on the table, then I think it should be a four year one and require a renewal process that re-evaluates the person. A lot of drivers licenses work that way, it wouldn't be a completely foreign process.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Dave

It seems that some are saying they will vote for Emma Gonzalez, the students' spokesperdon and march organiser, if she ever went into politics.

QuoteFlorida school shooting: Students to march on Washington

Young survivors of Wednesday's school shooting in Florida have announced a national march on Washington to demand political action on gun control.

Student organisers told US media that they were determined to make Wednesday's shooting a turning point in the national gun debate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43105701

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus


Dave

Quote from: Icarus on February 19, 2018, 07:53:34 PM
I can get on board with this teachers attitude about the need for functional societal norms. .  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5407511/Florida-teacher-Facebook-post-gun-violence-goes-viral.html

Yes, I'll follow you on that! If parents of misbehaving kids could be subjected to a threat of punishment it might help, though it is hard to imagine a punishment that did not make some situations worse - no point in fining an already financially struggling family. I am sure that I have read ideas of "parenting classes" where both parents and kids have to attend, discuss, role play etc.

Too late, perhaps, for the current generation and no politician wants to commit funding etc beyond their expected ter,m. It would have to be a binding, all party scheme that even a president would be allowed scrap. But it might take ten years to design and set up. In the mean time stricter controls on access to guns is essential.

We may be in for interesting times.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Ecurb Noselrub

Maybe this has already been posted, but this Wiki article gives some good info on the Federal Assault Weapons ban that was in effect from 1994 to 2004 in the US. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Look at the graph down in the article showing mass killings over the past 25 years or so.  When the weapons were banned, there was only one year when such killings were high.  Afterward, it skyrocketed. 

Dave

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Ecurb Noselrub


Dave

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on February 19, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
Quote from: Dave on February 19, 2018, 09:17:29 PM
I misread something!

?? What did you misread?

One of the graphs, thought it said 2018 was the second highest death count at less than two months into the year! But, even then, those graphs show the size and one of the possible causes of the problem.

My nature wants to see those plots against the incidence of verbal violence on anti-social media and maybe a few other social and political metrics.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

Oh, what a surprise! Trump grabbed a suggestion, by one of the fathers of one of the killed kids thst teachers and voaches be srmed with both hsnds!

Quote"If you had a teacher who was adept with the firearm, they could end the attack very quickly," he said, stating that schools could arm up to 20% of their teachers to stop "maniacs" who may try and attack them.
"This would be obviously only for people who were very adept at handling a gun, and it would be, it's called concealed carry, where a teacher would have a concealed gun on them. They'd go for special training and they would be there and you would no longer have a gun-free zone," Trump said. "Gun-free zone to a maniac -- because they're all cowards -- a gun-free zone is 'let's go in and let's attack because bullets aren't coming back at us.' "
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/trump-listening-sessions-parkland-students/index.html

And so the madness goes on, unless the sane ones can make enough noise.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74