Author Topic: Kindness Doesn't Pay...  (Read 696 times)

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Administrator
  • Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 13862
  • Gender: Female
  • "Fire together, wire together"
Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« on: March 26, 2018, 12:38:51 AM »
...But Intelligence Does?

Quote
Nice guys (and gals) finish last. Well, not quite, but a working paper due to be published in the Journal of Political Economy did find that intelligence – not personality traits such as agreeableness and conscientiousness – is the biggest indicator of how cooperative or not an individual is and, in turn, how successful they'll be.

Continues here (iflscience)

I wonder though if it's actually the individual's general education (not just schooling, but a mix of that with upbringing, innate intelligence, culture and so on) which influences outcomes more heavily? I won't get into my opinions on the merit of IQ tests as tools to measure intelligence... ::)

Quote
The lesson here: Next time you need a person you can trust, check their IQ score.

Really? What if that person is 'too smart for their own good'?
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


jumbojak

  • Chandler's Pale Cock Slurper
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5110
  • The Iconic Iconoclast
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2018, 01:31:18 AM »
There's also desire to consider. My father was an extremely intelligent man. He also wasn't terribly ambitious for a variety of reasons and wasn't much of an achiever in the traditional sense. He could have worked as an agronomist and lived very comfortably or taken a job managing a large corporate farm and been very well off financially. Instead he chose to farm until the hog market was pushed out of reach of smaller operations and then run a moulding planer at a lumber yard for much less than he could have made elsewhere. Hell, golf courses offered him work at a good salary to maintain fairways and greens.
 

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub
" Please hold your high school or college math books in higher esteem than
your copy of the KJV. " - Icarus

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Administrator
  • Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 13862
  • Gender: Female
  • "Fire together, wire together"
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2018, 02:02:24 AM »
There's also desire to consider. My father was an extremely intelligent man. He also wasn't terribly ambitious for a variety of reasons and wasn't much of an achiever in the traditional sense. He could have worked as an agronomist and lived very comfortably or taken a job managing a large corporate farm and been very well off financially. Instead he chose to farm until the hog market was pushed out of reach of smaller operations and then run a moulding planer at a lumber yard for much less than he could have made elsewhere. Hell, golf courses offered him work at a good salary to maintain fairways and greens.

Good point. Some people have other motivations and go down a different route.
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6228
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2018, 04:51:21 AM »
This must be one of the most complex of situations and, I think, almost beyond fathoming. I feel that basic, inherent, personality is the biggest factor. I have met almost uneducated, maybe uneducatable, people who have positive attributes in terms of trust. I have met brilliant people whom I would lend a penny.

I have met those who have survived severe trauma in life but who would give you their last penny. Others who have known nothing but love and dupport who will screw you without a thought.

I do not think you can predict a person's perdonality even knowing all the details of their life and measuring their "intelligence".  You might get an "educated guess" but that will be "statistical",  "n% of people with these life experiences and this IQ score behave in this way". But that "n" will still have quirks in it, add or remove one metric and you will get a different result.

Not putting this well, but I think people, as individuals, are beyond predicting accurately. Mass marketing, crowd control etc work inside a reasonably steady bell curve; individual people are spikey and mobile, not so predictable in their interpersonal relationships.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

No one

  • Knows Who'd Win a Fight Between Superman and Batman
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2018, 10:52:44 AM »
Often humans who possess exceptionally above average intelligence tend to fail in channeling even the slightest bit of common sense. 

hermes2015

  • Taking the Road Less Travelled
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2018, 11:23:55 AM »
Often humans who possess exceptionally above average intelligence tend to fail in channeling even the slightest bit of common sense.

Some of the people with the least common sense I've trained have been PhDs.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6228
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2018, 11:49:23 AM »
Often humans who possess exceptionally above average intelligence tend to fail in channeling even the slightest bit of common sense.

Some of the people with the least common sense I've trained have been PhDs.

Yeah, having lots of smarts seems not mean a person is equipped to cope with mundanity. How to boil water might not seem a necessary skill for a pure maths geek (so long as someone else can do it for his drink). Avoiding a car is not as important as the sudden theoretical inspiration that needs immediate study. The theoretical physics freak at EMI could not be left in charge of a screwdriver without shedding blood - not always his own.

But those people are needed in this world and we should nurture them.

Though that makes me wonder about the nature and definitions of intelligence, most descriptions I have heard include the ability to cope with normal life and novel experiences. To me life includes making cuppas and avoiding being run over.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Asmodean

  • The Grumpy Lumpy
  • Administrator
  • Luxembourg Trembles!
  • *****
  • Posts: 14409
  • The GrayGod
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 03:46:34 PM »
Quote
The lesson here: Next time you need a person you can trust, check their IQ score.

Really? What if that person is 'too smart for their own good'?

My IQ is in 130-150 range. Will you borrow my trsutworthy self a fuckload of money while letting me babysit your newborn baby?

If so, well... Fuck! I've been going about this whole life thing all wrong!





Ok... I see what they are saying, in a way, and yes, if it comes to someone I can trust with not causing a nuclear meltdown at a power plant, I'd rather that person not have the IQ of a chimp. Still, when it comes to trusting a person to DO cause that very meltdown... Brilliant minds can cause spectacular fukups. Besides, if the local Mensa crowd is anything to go by, there may also be correlation between high IQ and being an insufferable twat. Trustworthy? Perhaps so. Still insufferable though.
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Icarus

  • The wise one.
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5029
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 10:01:53 PM »
My own experience with Mensa people has been more than pleasant.   In no case have any of them presented a holier than thou behavior. 

Mensa people are not necessarily the smartest people around. The ones that I know are likely to tell you that. They are uncommonly good at taking tests.  Taking tests is, after all, the way you can become a Mensa member. 

What really intelligent people understand best is that they do not actually know very much.  One of the old Greeks, Aristotle, Socrates or one of the others is said to have said.....We do not know what we do not know.
...
Back to the title of this thread; Kindness Doesn't Pay.  I take the rebuttal side of that argument.  I have been jewed, screwed, and tattooed by people for whom I have shown kindness, compassion, and in some cases financial help or sharing of my food and drink when I had little.  Certainly not all of them have been ingrates, but enough of them to make me somewhat jaded and usually cautious.

 Here is the deal.  Although I have been had a few times...no many times...,. I get some personal satisfaction from trying to be helpful.  There have been people who have shown gratitude and reciprocity too.  Those are the good ones that are pleasing to remember.  I do admit that I can hold a grudge if egregiously offended. 

There were three people in my life who have gone far out of their way to help me become a better human , a better business person, and a more fulfilled human as a result.  No make that four special people.  The fourth one was my deceased wife.  She was the most helpful of all.   There were many other people who did small favors for me as well.  I can not ignore the reality that I am what I am as a result of the kindness of others.  My cup is half full, not half empty.

 

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • Administrator
  • Silly Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 13862
  • Gender: Female
  • "Fire together, wire together"
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2018, 01:04:44 AM »
I've never met a self-described Mensa member IRL so I don't have a personal opinion on them, if if I was to play a cooperative high-strategy game with someone I would hope that person was smart enough to work towards the better outcome for all (such as more money in the long-term). I would not necessarily trust a smart person with something valuable of mine, trust takes some time to be built and even so...
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Rift Zone

  • Not Sure About That Kool-Aid
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Mother Nature's little bitch; Proud Sagan Minion
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2018, 12:25:49 PM »
Really? What if that person is 'too smart for their own good'?
They remain isolated from most of humanity, socially and intellectually.
In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival.   -Carl Sagan

Bad Penny II

  • Sprach mit Zarathustra
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Nice Borderline Troll
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 12:58:31 PM »
Really? What if that person is 'too smart for their own good'?
They remain isolated from most of humanity, socially and intellectually.

If I Google "types of intelligence" this pops up:

Quote
In 1983 an American developmental psychologist Howard Gardener described 9 types of intelligence:

    Naturalist (nature smart)
    Musical (sound smart)
    Logical-mathematical (number/reasoning smart)
    Existential (life smart)
    Interpersonal (people smart)
    Bodily-kinesthetic (body smart)
    Linguistic (word smart)

If they're too smart for their own good then possibly they're out of balance.
The very clever can seem very stupid at times.
A person could be both a genius and a moron of different sorts. 
In a modern society where specialisation is key they could be successful or a sad failure.
That's all obvious, wasn't worth mentioning, time for sleep.
Certainty disturbs me


Rift Zone

  • Not Sure About That Kool-Aid
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Mother Nature's little bitch; Proud Sagan Minion
Re: Kindness Doesn't Pay...
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 01:46:27 PM »
Really? What if that person is 'too smart for their own good'?
They remain isolated from most of humanity, socially and intellectually.

If I Google "types of intelligence" this pops up:

Quote
In 1983 an American developmental psychologist Howard Gardener described 9 types of intelligence:

    Naturalist (nature smart)
    Musical (sound smart)
    Logical-mathematical (number/reasoning smart)
    Existential (life smart)
    Interpersonal (people smart)
    Bodily-kinesthetic (body smart)
    Linguistic (word smart)

If they're too smart for their own good then possibly they're out of balance.
The very clever can seem very stupid at times.
A person could be both a genius and a moron of different sorts. 
In a modern society where specialisation is key they could be successful or a sad failure.
That's all obvious, wasn't worth mentioning, time for sleep.

Fair argument; after all, intelligence doesn't simply give one knowledge and wisdom, only greater access to them.   And extreme intelligence does tend to lean toward specific areas: both Beethoven and Einstein were genius, but they'd both be quite inept while dealing with the other's forte.   In spite of that, I suspect the true cause of their isolation has more to do with what they're invested in more so than some tenuous "balance".   That is to say if we look at how genius contributed to our development as a species, it is clear genius is more or less consistently focuses on things most of humanity has little awareness of and interest in.   ...and if you cant relate to people, there is no relationship, aside from rather superficial interaction.   Come to think of it, it could be lack of balance after all; only, the lack exists within common folk. 
In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival.   -Carl Sagan