Happy Atheist Forum

Hi Everyone  :hmm:

I myself don't believe in god and generally dislike religion as a whole... I like living in the real and believe in science and life... I am a good person not because I am told I need to be - because I WANT to be.

Soooo I have joined this forum in hope that I will meet some nice like minded people and perhaps get some support from anyone who has or is experiencing similar circumstances.

Thanks for listening  

Has he been baptized?

Have you dumped him yet?

Sorry to hear about your troubles, nevertheless, welcome aboard.

He has not been baptised as yet and no I have not dumped him... Do you think it is a strong enough reason to do so?

Quote from: "chrome"He has not been baptised as yet and no I have not dumped him... Do you think it is a strong enough reason to do so?

Nope.  He will be required to dump you in order to be baptised.  He will either figure it out or he will dump you.  Just fuck his brains out and he will quit the religion when he's required to stop.

Quote from: "chrome"He has not been baptised as yet and no I have not dumped him... Do you think it is a strong enough reason to do so?

The only reason to dump him is the same reason that anyone dumps anyone. Can you live with him? Do you have fun with him? Does he make you uncomfortable? Does he try in any way to change you, to bring you over to his way of "thinking?"

From the way you describe the situation it seems that there's quite a gulf between the two of you insofar as your world views are concerned.

Is he happy for you to just be yourself? Are you happy for him to just be himself, do you enjoy him being himself?

If not, get yourself away from the relationship.

Quote from: "chrome"Hi Everyone  :hmm:

I myself don't believe in god and generally dislike religion as a whole... I like living in the real and believe in science and life... I am a good person not because I am told I need to be - because I WANT to be.

Soooo I have joined this forum in hope that I will meet some nice like minded people and perhaps get some support from anyone who has or is experiencing similar circumstances.

Thanks for listening  :P

Nothing wrong with reading and researching The Bible and other "scriptures."  It's probably the single greatest cause of irreligiosity there is.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "chrome"He has not been baptised as yet and no I have not dumped him... Do you think it is a strong enough reason to do so?

Nope.  He will be required to dump you in order to be baptised.  He will either figure it out or he will dump you.  Just fuck his brains out and he will quit the religion when he's required to stop.

Hmmm interesting take on it poopShoot  :P[/quote]

Hey deek   sounds like you know a fair bit about them... yeah they are hell bent on studing the bible... when I went to the convention they all had brief cases with notes and highlighters and books, etc.

All the Jo's seem really nice and tolerant... but it seems somewhat fake to me as they are doing it not because they choose to but because they were told and it is written in the book.

I guess I need to take each day at a time and see how it pans out.

If worst comes to worst, pointing and laughing should work.

Quote from: "chrome"I do love him... I do have fun with him - he doesn't try to change me he just tries to make me understand so I don't think he is crazy... One thing I'm scared of is that he may ask me to marry him because of his beliefs... not too sure if I could say yes?

Agreeing to marry someone should be black and white. If you are unsure at all that's crazy to even think about doing.


I could never date someone that didn't believe I did.
 My boyfriend is my other half, and if I couldn't rant to him about creationism... I don't know what I would do.

Quote from: "omfgzmariah"

Quote from: "chrome"I do love him... I do have fun with him - he doesn't try to change me he just tries to make me understand so I don't think he is crazy... One thing I'm scared of is that he may ask me to marry him because of his beliefs... not too sure if I could say yes?

Agreeing to marry someone should be black and white. If you are unsure at all that's crazy to even think about doing.


I could never date someone that didn't believe I did.
 My boyfriend is my other half, and if I couldn't rant to him about creationism... I don't know what I would do.

I think everyone has questions or certain doubts about marring someone... surely it can't be a complete and utter certainty! It would be amazing if it was though  

I do agree it would be much easier to have someone who shared the same ideals as you do though

Religion, or lack thereof, need not be a bar to a good love.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Religion, or lack thereof, need not be a bar to a good love.

I completely disagree. At least, for me personally.

But we are all different.

Indeed.  It all depends on the person, too.  I've never been in love with an atheist gal, they've all been believers, and all good women.

Well, finally something that is right up MY alley.  My speciality is Marriage and Family, hence relationships.  The advice given so far is good, I would only add this:

Relationships between theists and atheists work all the time, but not without some strain.  There have to be some guidelines, understandings, and a lot of dialog.  I would be lying if I said it would be easy, or if I said that these relationships don't fail on a regular basis, they do.  In order to make them work, you have to respect his views and he yours, and perhaps most importantly, he has to learn to tone it down if it makes you uncomfortable.  Both of you need to set limits, and understand that religion doesn't have to be behind every thought or every conversation or every decision made.  IF that becomes the norm, then you have a serious decision to make.

I don't envy you, I've been very fortunate to have had two wives, both of whom shared a similar world view to mine.  Good luck and if you have any specific things you'd like to discuss we could do so privately, perhaps.

Quote from: "omfgzmariah"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Religion, or lack thereof, need not be a bar to a good love.

I completely disagree. At least, for me personally.

But we are all different.

I think it makes things easier if you have similar beliefs, but I don't think it can't happen, especially if both are willing to be flexible.  My wife doesn't believe, but doesn't particularly care to discuss her disbelief, she sees it as personal, whereas I see it as something I want to shout to the masses.  We have an interesting arrangement.

Quote from: "chrome"Hmmm interesting take on it poopShoot   so are you saying he will choose sex over religion?

A lot of people do.  Sex, drugs and friends outside of the religion are the most common reasons people end up not getting baptized.  At least that's what my father-in-law tells me (he's an elder).  As he gets involved more and more, they're going to push him to convert you and they're going to tell him to stop doing things they don't like, including having sex with you and eventually even hanging out with you at all if you don't convert.  He will literally be forced to choose between you and the religion.

QuoteAll the Jo's seem really nice and tolerant... but it seems somewhat fake to me as they are doing it not because they choose to but because they were told and it is written in the book.

It's more complicated than that.  It's not that they're being fake, it's that the propaganda polarizes their ability to treat people well by situation.  It IS a matter of putting on a good face, but it's not conscious on the part of the random everyday JW.

Quote from: "Martin TK"I think it makes things easier if you have similar beliefs, but I don't think it can't happen, especially if both are willing to be flexible.  My wife doesn't believe, but doesn't particularly care to discuss her disbelief, she sees it as personal, whereas I see it as something I want to shout to the masses.  We have an interesting arrangement.

My wife is a theist (former Jehovah, in fact) and we discuss religion all the time.  She and I have come to an understanding that our opinions about religion aren't personal about each other.  It does help that she's not a churchgoer anymore, but she still hols strong religious beliefs and holds the bible to be the word of god.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Martin TK"I think it makes things easier if you have similar beliefs, but I don't think it can't happen, especially if both are willing to be flexible.  My wife doesn't believe, but doesn't particularly care to discuss her disbelief, she sees it as personal, whereas I see it as something I want to shout to the masses.  We have an interesting arrangement.

My wife is a theist (former Jehovah, in fact) and we discuss religion all the time.  She and I have come to an understanding that our opinions about religion aren't personal about each other.  It does help that she's not a churchgoer anymore, but she still hols strong religious beliefs and holds the bible to be the word of god.

See it can work out, and dialog is the key, but so is the whole respect thing.  Her not being active in the church and thereby NOT attempting to force you to go, is an important fact in your relationship.  I wonder if the paradigm would change if she suddenly began to "expect" you to see her belief the way she does.  I, also can't help but wonder what might happen as you age, and the whole worrying about your soul comes into play...

Quote from: "Martin TK"See it can work out, and dialog is the key, but so is the whole respect thing.  Her not being active in the church and thereby NOT attempting to force you to go, is an important fact in your relationship. I wonder if the paradigm would change if she suddenly began to "expect" you to see her belief the way she does.  I, also can't help but wonder what might happen as you age, and the whole worrying about your soul comes into play...

It seems to me that'd be a paradigm-shift, by definition.  Their paradigm seems to be tolerance of difference, not expectation of compliance.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "chrome"Hmmm interesting take on it poopShoot   so are you saying he will choose sex over religion?

A lot of people do.  Sex, drugs and friends outside of the religion are the most common reasons people end up not getting baptized.  At least that's what my father-in-law tells me (he's an elder).  As he gets involved more and more, they're going to push him to convert you and they're going to tell him to stop doing things they don't like, including having sex with you and eventually even hanging out with you at all if you don't convert.  He will literally be forced to choose between you and the religion.

I don't know if I believe that... I have although noticed that he isn't having sex with me as much as he used too - he has deleted all of his porn collection off his computer (60GB worth) and we don't really do anything kinky anymore AND when we do have sex he kind of feels guilty for it which sucks! But I truly believe he won't leave me because I am not a Jo and he won't try to convert me, I just think he will eventually want to marry me.

Quote from: "chrome"I don't know if I believe that...

It's their policy.  Unfortunately, i don't have my JW book collection here, it's in Oregon.

QuoteBut I truly believe he won't leave me because I am not a Jo and he won't try to convert me, I just think he will eventually want to marry me.

Then he won't be allowed to be baptised.  Regardless of his feelings, they will require him to cut off contact with nonbelievers.  He will be forced to attempt to convert you  or face being told he can't be baptised.  That's a pretty black and white thing with them as a group.

Quote

Quote from: "chrome"But I truly believe he won't leave me because I am not a Jo and he won't try to convert me, I just think he will eventually want to marry me.

Then he won't be allowed to be baptised.  Regardless of his feelings, they will require him to cut off contact with nonbelievers.  He will be forced to attempt to convert you  or face being told he can't be baptised.  That's a pretty black and white thing with them as a group.

I have actually told him of my worries and he reckons that one of his friends who HAS been baptised - his mother who has also been batised is married to a non believer and he seems to think that their church accepts that.

Quote from: "chrome"I have actually told him of my worries and he reckons that one of his friends who HAS been baptised - his mother who has also been batised is married to a non believer and he seems to think that their church accepts that.

Was she already married when they baptised her?  You two aren't married, they will bar him from being baptised and they might even bar him from baptism if he marries you before baptism to avoid having to leave you.  I also guarantee you that she is being pressured to convert her husband.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "chrome"I have actually told him of my worries and he reckons that one of his friends who HAS been baptised - his mother who has also been batised is married to a non believer and he seems to think that their church accepts that.

Was she already married when they baptised her?  You two aren't married, they will bar him from being baptised and they might even bar him from baptism if he marries you before baptism to avoid having to leave you.  I also guarantee you that she is being pressured to convert her husband.

actually you do have a point... He was a Jo when they got married and he feel out of the religion while they were married... hmm some food for thought... really if it came to that and he had to make a choice over me and the religion and he chose religion - then that will have to be, good luck to the fucker!  

Quote from: "chrome"if it came to that and he had to make a choice over me and the religion and he chose religion - then that will have to be, good luck to the fucker!  

Unfortunately, that's the sort of thing religion does to people.  While I want to say that it would mean he didn't love you, that's not actually the case.  They push the meme that people will have to give up beloved friends and even family in order to follow "the truth".  The situation you mentioned before is merely an effect of the fact that they also push the meme that divorce is as bad as adultery and the person who files is often expelled from the church for it.

When I was about 21 some friends turned to the dark side that is fundamentalism.
I found their motivation questionable.
They enjoyed being part of a group looking down on others.
I'm sure the patriarchal dominance appealed to the guys.
The woman got tired of this after a few years.

I see the adoption of a fairy story to guide your life as a character flaw.
The surrender of reason for faith seems intellectually lazy.
I prefer a relationship with a reasonable person, someone who can think clearly about their partner.
I have no faith in the ability of these born agains to think clearly about anything.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I see the adoption of a fairy story to guide your life as a character flaw.
The surrender of reason for faith seems intellectually lazy.
I prefer a relationship with a reasonable person, someone who can think clearly about their partner.
I have no faith in the ability of these born agains to think clearly about anything.

Interesting take... I agree to some respect - some people really need some sort of religion to get them through day-to-day life. Actually my bf once said that if god wasn't real what would stop him from going around killing everyone and then ultimately killing himself. To me that sounds way fucked up but I can understand it... as god is his reason for everything he doesn't understand and for him to be religious is not a character flaw more of an ingrained understanding... to him it IS reality.

Quote from: "chrome"Actually my bf once said that if god wasn't real what would stop him from going around killing everyone and then ultimately killing himself.

When people tell me that I tell them that I don't need an invisible man to tell me that's a fucked up thing to do.

Quote from: "chrome"Actually my bf once said that if god wasn't real what would stop him from going around killing everyone and then ultimately killing himself.

If this doesn't illustrate a character flaw I don't know what would.
This is a person I just wouldn't want to be around.
I tried putting up with this sort of crap from friends years ago.
I no longer have patience for this kind of stupidity.

Many Australians have a vague belief they picked up in childhood.
This doesn't effect their day to day lives, I'm married to one, it isn't a problem.
This fundamentalist stuff is another matter.

This thread is interesting.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5732&p=81008#p81008 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5732&p=81008#p81008)

Chrome, how would you feel if your boyfriend were no longer your boyfriend?

Quote from: "Tank"Chrome, how would you feel if your boyfriend were no longer your boyfriend?

I would truly be really sad and would miss him immensely... he is like my best friend. I have been with him for 3 and a half years so it wouldn't be easy. Why do you ask?

How long has he been this immersed in practicing his religion?  It could just be a phase that he needs to work through.

If it is unlikely to be a phase imagine yourself married to a very pious man for the rest of your life...do you see yourself as happy?  If yes, then stay with him.  If no, it's probably time to move on while you are still friends.

Quote from: "chrome"

Quote from: "Tank"Chrome, how would you feel if your boyfriend were no longer your boyfriend?

I would truly be really sad and would miss him immensely... he is like my best friend. I have been with him for 3 and a half years so it wouldn't be easy. Why do you ask?

To try to understand how important he is to you as you will have to balance those feelings against the possibility of a break up or not. Not sure I'm particularly  suited to give you advice as I've never faced your problem. Still considering what I would do in your circumstances.

Chrome, what if someone were to say to you: stay with the guy. Forget about about the fact that he's religious and you're not, forget it, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you stay with him, that you marry him if he proposes to you and that you live with him as his wife, attend church with him, bear and raise his children according to his religious beliefs while doing your level best to counteract what he teaches them. Stay with him while you do your best to be yourself and pursue your own goals even though you and you husband are moving in two completely different directions and will be for the rest of your lives unless and until one of you goes over to the other's side.

What would you say to that?

The whole thing sounds fishy to me. I've allowed anybody to change my belief. In my minds eye, if you literature holds up to scrutiny with you, it should hold up without you. And that never is the case. All these religions offer an instant social network that may be appealing but do you believe your boyfriend would have converted without the social element? If not, I would say that is more the problem than anything else.

Very few people just pick up holy book x and convert. Its all a ploy of very happy well polished used car salesmen.

Challenge him to go without the social element for 2-3 months. If he maintains he wants to be in that faith, then he probably will be and you'll have to make your own decisions.

Quote from: "i_am_i"Chrome, what if someone were to say to you: stay with the guy. Forget about about the fact that he's religious and you're not, forget it, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you stay with him, that you marry him if he proposes to you and that you live with him as his wife, attend church with him, bear and raise his children according to his religious beliefs while doing your level best to counteract what he teaches them. Stay with him while you do your best to be yourself and pursue your own goals even though you and you husband are moving in two completely different directions and will be for the rest of your lives unless and until one of you goes over to the other's side.

What would you say to that?

This couldn't happen.  The Watchtower society has guidelines for baptism and one of those guidelines is to cut off ties with unbelieving friends/lovers.

Hi Chrome,

You have my sympathy.  I was in a situation like this once, and it didn't work.  In fact, it was one of the reasons I started reading actively on atheism, religion and evolution.  Maybe if I had known then what I know now about how religious people think, I would have treated the situation differently.  My ex wanted to convert me to christianity, despite the fact that I used to be a christian (by default I'd say, my parents were missionaries) and there was no way that I was going to go back to believing in fairy tales and suspending reason, not even for a relationship.  One thing my ex threw at me was that it was my Christian upbringing that made me the, according to her, wonderful boyfriend I was.  I replied to her that I am nice, or try to be, because I believe that is the right thing to do, not because I'm commanded to do so by a mass mudering, psychotic, depraved god.

As the relationship was very troubled, anyway, this christianity phase was just the last nail in the coffin, and we broke up a few months later.

One thing she insisted on, however, was to stop having sex, so that God wouldn't punish her.  This was a little too much for me.  Not only because I love having sex, but religion's obsession with sex is something I truly cannot understand.  No one has ever been able to explain to me what is wrong with sex outside the marriage.  I can understand not stealing, lying and murdering (yet again, I wouldn't need God to tell me not to do that) but what is the harm caused by sex to society?  My particular favourite explanation is that God didn't intend for us to have sex outside the marriage, i.e. we would be doing something not intended for us.  Good, but why?  And then the explanations range from the bizarre to downright lunatic.  Apparently, sex outside the marriage also disturbs the social order.

QuotePoopshoot wrote: The Watchtower society has guidelines for baptism and one of those guidelines is to cut off ties with unbelieving friends/lovers.

Of course, any outside influences that might open your eyes, have to be shut off.  Perfect conditions for brainwashing.  I simply cannot see my life without my unbelieving friends and lovers.

Quote from: "darkcyd"Challenge him to go without the social element for 2-3 months. If he maintains he wants to be in that faith, then he probably will be and you'll have to make your own decisions.

He doesn't at this [point have a social element... his only exposure is at work with 2 of his co-workers.

Quote from: "i_am_i"Chrome, what if someone were to say to you: stay with the guy. Forget about about the fact that he's religious and you're not, forget it, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you stay with him, that you marry him if he proposes to you and that you live with him as his wife, attend church with him, bear and raise his children according to his religious beliefs while doing your level best to counteract what he teaches them. Stay with him while you do your best to be yourself and pursue your own goals even though you and you husband are moving in two completely different directions and will be for the rest of your lives unless and until one of you goes over to the other's side.

What would you say to that?

I would say FUCK THAT... I am more of a 21st century woman and I believe in equality - That sort of life feels kinda dull to me and a bit of a lie. Stupid religion always ruins everything!

Surely it is not as bad as everybody makes it... I reckon I'm gonna stay and see how things go - I do love him too much to leave him... hmm maybe it is just a phase!

Quote from: "Parsifal"One thing she insisted on, however, was to stop having sex, so that God wouldn't punish her.  This was a little too much for me.  Not only because I love having sex, but religion's obsession with sex is something I truly cannot understand.  No one has ever been able to explain to me what is wrong with sex outside the marriage.  I can understand not stealing, lying and murdering (yet again, I wouldn't need God to tell me not to do that) but what is the harm caused by sex to society?  My particular favorite explanation is that God didn't intend for us to have sex outside the marriage, i.e. we would be doing something not intended for us.  Good, but why?  And then the explanations range from the bizarre to downright lunatic.  Apparently, sex outside the marriage also disturbs the social order.

I believe that sex is actually a very important part of a relationship - it makes you feel closer to one another and it's like the funnest free thing you can do  :hmm: hmmm doesn't really make much sense still  

Quote from: "chrome"My bf explained the sex before marriage thing to me as - God has given you a present (sex) You are not supposed to open that present till your wedding night and is disrespectful if you do so.

Okay, so this happened in the twenty first century, correct? He said to you, in the twenty first century, that sex is a present from God, right?

Look, chrome, I just don't know what else to tell you. Everything you've related about this boyfriend of yours makes him sound, to me anyway, like a real fucking drag, and a not too bright one for that matter.

I think you should walk away from this relationship. I think you want to walk away too, or you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place, no?

Look, there's nothing wrong with being alone, with not having a boyfriend. What's wrong is surrendering your own integrity.

Quote from: "chrome"

Quote from: "Parsifal"One thing she insisted on, however, was to stop having sex, so that God wouldn't punish her.  This was a little too much for me.  Not only because I love having sex, but religion's obsession with sex is something I truly cannot understand.  No one has ever been able to explain to me what is wrong with sex outside the marriage.  I can understand not stealing, lying and murdering (yet again, I wouldn't need God to tell me not to do that) but what is the harm caused by sex to society?  My particular favorite explanation is that God didn't intend for us to have sex outside the marriage, i.e. we would be doing something not intended for us.  Good, but why?  And then the explanations range from the bizarre to downright lunatic.  Apparently, sex outside the marriage also disturbs the social order.

I believe that sex is actually a very important part of a relationship - it makes you feel closer to one another and it's like the funnest free thing you can do  :hmm: hmmm doesn't really make much sense still  

If he is starting to attempt to control you at a sexual level show him the door, immediately and without question. It's just the start of a huge slippery slope of manipulation you must not let him create. It might be sex now but in due course it will be who you can be friends with, who you can see and eventually what you can think. You have a right to sexual self expression. If you choose to express that in a monogamous situation and expect fidelity in return your partner needs to understand they have a responsibility to meet your needs and visa versa. Sexual manipulation and control are not something anybody should accept in a relationship, it's a strong sign of a controlling and domineering personality. This is not the same as saying 'I don't like you playing with my xyz because it's yucky' that's just personal taste and needs to be dealt with in a mature way. It's when somebody starts to attempt to dictate how the other behaves 'I am going to play with your xyz because I have a right to!' or 'I don't like your sex toys, get rid of them.' That the alarm bells should be ringing.

Your boyfriend can bin his porn, that's his choice about how he behaves. But if he changes his behaviour towards you and simply demands you accept that then I would say he is putting your pleasure and happiness below his own sense of self. Not good in my opinion. It's more about his respect for you as an individual verses his desire to be part of an institution. You really do need to assert yourself here otherwise you're in for a long, slow, painful and potentially damaging relationship collapse where you could end up blaming yourself when you are not at fault.

You have to realise that when a religion really gets it's claws into a person it can utterly change them. Usually it amplifies a person's basic traits. A good person can become saintly a bad person can be driven to murder. It is highly unlikely that you will recognise your boyfriend in a year if he continues to fall into the clutches of the JW cult.

chrome, how old are you?  I ask because after a half dozen instance of someone's ripping out your heart and stamping that sucker flat, it becomes a lot easier to make appropriate choices.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "chrome"

Quote from: "Parsifal"One thing she insisted on, however, was to stop having sex, so that God wouldn't punish her.  This was a little too much for me.  Not only because I love having sex, but religion's obsession with sex is something I truly cannot understand.  No one has ever been able to explain to me what is wrong with sex outside the marriage.  I can understand not stealing, lying and murdering (yet again, I wouldn't need God to tell me not to do that) but what is the harm caused by sex to society?  My particular favorite explanation is that God didn't intend for us to have sex outside the marriage, i.e. we would be doing something not intended for us.  Good, but why?  And then the explanations range from the bizarre to downright lunatic.  Apparently, sex outside the marriage also disturbs the social order.

I believe that sex is actually a very important part of a relationship - it makes you feel closer to one another and it's like the funnest free thing you can do  :hmm: hmmm doesn't really make much sense still  

If he is starting to attempt to control you at a sexual level show him the door, immediately and without question. It's just the start of a huge slippery slope of manipulation you must not let him create. It might be sex now but in due course it will be who you can be friends with, who you can see and eventually what you can think. You have a right to sexual self expression. If you choose to express that in a monogamous situation and expect fidelity in return your partner needs to understand they have a responsibility to meet your needs and visa versa. Sexual manipulation and control are not something anybody should accept in a relationship, it's a strong sign of a controlling and domineering personality. This is not the same as saying 'I don't like you playing with my xyz because it's yucky' that's just personal taste and needs to be dealt with in a mature way. It's when somebody starts to attempt to dictate how the other behaves 'I am going to play with your xyz because I have a right to!' or 'I don't like your sex toys, get rid of them.' That the alarm bells should be ringing.

Your boyfriend can bin his porn, that's his choice about how he behaves. But if he changes his behaviour towards you and simply demands you accept that then I would say he is putting your pleasure and happiness below his own sense of self. Not good in my opinion. It's more about his respect for you as an individual verses his desire to be part of an institution. You really do need to assert yourself here otherwise you're in for a long, slow, painful and potentially damaging relationship collapse where you could end up blaming yourself when you are not at fault.

You have to realise that when a religion really gets it's claws into a person it can utterly change them. Usually it amplifies a person's basic traits. A good person can become saintly a bad person can be driven to murder. It is highly unlikely that you will recognise your boyfriend in a year if he continues to fall into the clutches of the JW cult.

This reminds of a Simpson's episode where Marge suddenly becomes religious.  When it inevitably causes friction between her and Homer, she tells him:

QuoteDon't try to come between my God and me, because you just can't win.

There is a lot of wisdom in The Simpsons...

QuoteChrome wrote:  My bf explained the sex before marriage thing to me as - God has given you a present (sex) You are not supposed to open that present till your wedding night and is disrespectful if you do so.

This is another wonderful one.  All animals have sex, we don't do it any different than animals (well, I don't suppose they go to movies first, but anyway), so what gift has God given us?  Why is it disrespectful for humans to have extra marital sex but not for animals?  God gave the gift to everything.

Chrome, I know this is difficult, and you will have to make the decision yourself, but you'd be better off with someone whose life isn't blindly guided by religion.  It would have been marginally better if he didn't try to fleece it off to you and others as well.  Losing a partner is tough in the short run, but in the long run, you are freeing yourself up for someone better.

Good luck.

How does boy friend feel about blood transfusions for a child that needs one?
If your boyfriend wants a god, but doesn't like the hell thing, there are alternatives.
Why does he have to take up with the weirdest of the weird?

I would never become seriously involved with someone religious, for many reasons. It is my belief that any rational evaluation of evidence will lead one towards atheism or agnosticism, if someone is religious, then it would seem that they are unable to do this. Being with someone like this would intolerable to me as an intimate relationship, though would be ok as a friend.

An intimate partner is one you make long term life decisions with, and I would not be willing to have my future affected by their irrational beliefs, nor the futures of any children we may have. And aside from all that, I do not want to rely on someone in a crisis who really believes that telepathically begging a magical sky daddy will help us when the shit hits the fan.

Quote from: "epepke"chrome, how old are you?  I ask because after a half dozen instance of someone's ripping out your heart and stamping that sucker flat, it becomes a lot easier to make appropriate choices.

I am 32... probably old enough to realise certain things. This is only my 2nd serious relationship though.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"How does boy friend feel about blood transfusions for a child that needs one?
If your boyfriend wants a god, but doesn't like the hell thing, there are alternatives.
Why does he have to take up with the weirdest of the weird?

Q1: I haven't asked him about the blood transfusion yet, so I'm not really sure.

Q2: Yeah but he is insistent now on this one as the guy he works with is someone he looks up to... my bf tells me that this guy is the most intelligent person he has met... so I'm guessing that my bf thinks; if he is a smart person, he MUST be right about his religion - there is no telling him otherwise.

I'm getting a general consensus that you guys don't think that he is right for me... weird thing is that in my heart I kinda agree with you guys - BUT I am so weak when it comes to matters of the heart.  

Chrome, please let us know what you decide and how things work out.  We're here for you.

I hope things workout and all our misgivings are misplaced.

Yes, Chrome just hang in there.

 :headbang:  :bananacolor:  :yay:

Quote from: "deekayfry"Yes, Chrome just hang in there.

 :headbang:  :bananacolor:  :yay:

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I hope things workout and all our misgivings are misplaced.

Quote from: "Parsifal"Chrome, please let us know what you decide and how things work out.  We're here for you. :hmm: perhaps do something sinful  :devil:

QuoteAww thanks guys - your all awesome - will keep you all informed - at this point though I am just taking it one day at a time... He is going to church for the first time this Sunday - hmm interesting times. Wonder what I should do while he is gone   perhaps do something sinful    

Chrome, I don't know if you're a Simpsons fan, but you should watch Homer the Heretic (season 4 episode 3).  Maybe even watch it while lovie dovie is at church.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia and you'll immediately see why I suggest you watch it (the part about the pants is not relevant to the discussion ):

QuoteOn a very cold Sunday morning, Marge is gathering the family to go to church. However, after viewing the weather outside and struggling with his pants, Homer refuses to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_the_Heretic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_the_Heretic)

Another memorable quote from this episode:

Quote"I'm not a bad guy, I work hard, and I love my kids...so why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to hell?"

I'm going to post a link to all Homer's atheist statements.  He is one of us!

Quote from: "chrome"

Quote from: "deekayfry"Yes, Chrome just hang in there.

 :headbang:  :bananacolor:  :yay:

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I hope things workout and all our misgivings are misplaced.

Quote from: "Parsifal"Chrome, please let us know what you decide and how things work out.  We're here for you. :hmm: perhaps do something sinful  :devil:

What's that?  Stay up all night and watch the Simpsons?

wrong section mehtinks
byt anyway just agree to dissagree, I fyou really feel for eachother there shouldnt be an issue.  

Quote from: "Ã¥scertain"wrong section mehtinks
byt anyway just agree to dissagree, I fyou really feel for eachother there shouldnt be an issue.  

That would of course be ideal, but is difficult to maintain in the long run.  You have to constantly remind yourself not to touch on the subject of religion, especially when the other one acts out his/her belief or lack thereof, constantly turning a blind eye.  When you have children, there will always be the discussion of whether they should be raised with or without religion.  All of this is fertile ground for marital problems.  Regarding the children, some religiots claim that children should be exposed to religion so that they can choose for themselves.  For me, that is tantamount to saying that children should be exposed to drugs so that they decide for themselves whether or not they want to use them or not.

Hi all, there are really instances that a religion can be a problem to a relationship. Religions have its own beliefs and in some situation it can really affected a relationship. Anyway, just always believe in God, in only one God.

 :spam2:  

Quote from: "arjline06"Hi all, there are really instances that a religion can be a problem to a relationship. Religions have its own beliefs and in some situation it can really affected a relationship. Anyway, just always believe in God, in only one God.

Wait, what?

fake atheist detected.

Quote from: "arjline06"Hi all, there are really instances that a religion can be a problem to a relationship. Religions have its own beliefs and in some situation it can really affected a relationship. Anyway, just always believe in God, in only one God.

Now that sums up neatly what an atheist/religiot relationship must be like from a religiot perspective.  The religiot will respect the atheist, so long as the atheist believes in God, in only one God.  Why only one, can't I at least believe in two more gods?  I would like to hedge my bets.

Quote from: "arjline06"Hi all, there are really instances that a religion can be a problem to a relationship. Religions have its own beliefs and in some situation it can really affected a relationship. Anyway, just always believe in God, in only one God.

If I believed in god, I would ask her to help you with your sentence structure.
I don't think our relationship can continue without her intervention.

Hi All,

Thought I would come here and give you guys a bit of an update on how things are going....

Well my boyfriend and I are (surprisingly) getting along quite well at the moment. He has become a better person because of his faith and I have tried to be as understanding and accepting as I can... I mean we do have a few disagreements over religion when I bring up anything that opposes his beliefs or bring up Dawkins.

But I have actually started to read the bible and look into religion a lot more just so I can understand it better. I don't think I can call myself an Atheist without knowing about God, the bible and religion. Have learned a great deal lately. One that may surprise a lot of people is that the Witnesses are no more crazy than mainstream Christianity - especially to the people who have blind faith and are told what to believe.

Anyways I'm still trying to find my feet with all this... not sure what direction my partner and I are going at this point... I guess I'm just taking it one day at a time.

Thanks all for listening  

Quote from: "chrome"Hi All,

Thought I would come here and give you guys a bit of an update on how things are going....

Well my boyfriend and I are (surprisingly) getting along quite well at the moment. He has become a better person because of his faith and I have tried to be as understanding and accepting as I can... I mean we do have a few disagreements over religion when I bring up anything that opposes his beliefs or bring up Dawkins.

But I have actually started to read the bible and look into religion a lot more just so I can understand it better. I don't think I can call myself an Atheist without knowing about God, the bible and religion. Have learned a great deal lately. One that may surprise a lot of people is that the Witnesses are no more crazy than mainstream Christianity - especially to the people who have blind faith and are told what to believe.

Anyways I'm still trying to find my feet with all this... not sure what direction my partner and I are going at this point... I guess I'm just taking it one day at a time.

Thanks all for listening  

Religion need only be a barrier if one of the partners makes it so.  If that is you, ask yourself why you're doing so.  If that is him, turn around and walk away.  

If neither partner makes it an issue, a way can be found.  Love, like fungus, is persistent.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Love, like fungus, is persistent.

  hehe I love that analogy!

Quote from: "chrome"the Witnesses are no more crazy than mainstream Christianity - especially to the people who have blind faith and are told what to believe.

That depends on how you define "crazy".  JWs are forbidden from receiving blood transfusions and are highly revered if they're willing to kidnap a child who will receive a transfusion under a court order.  That sounds pretty crazy to me.

Quote from: "chrome"Hi All,

Thought I would come here and give you guys a bit of an update on how things are going....

Well my boyfriend and I are (surprisingly) getting along quite well at the moment. He has become a better person because of his faith and I have tried to be as understanding and accepting as I can... I mean we do have a few disagreements over religion when I bring up anything that opposes his beliefs or bring up Dawkins.

But I have actually started to read the bible and look into religion a lot more just so I can understand it better. I don't think I can call myself an Atheist without knowing about God, the bible and religion. Have learned a great deal lately. One that may surprise a lot of people is that the Witnesses are no more crazy than mainstream Christianity - especially to the people who have blind faith and are told what to believe.

Anyways I'm still trying to find my feet with all this... not sure what direction my partner and I are going at this point... I guess I'm just taking it one day at a time.

Thanks all for listening  

Thanks for the update, I was starting to wonder what was going on. Good to see you are coming to an accommodation. I second what Thump said, wise word there. I also think that the JWs can be considered some of the oddest of the odd, but if you can put that to one side then you never know what will happen. Good luck.

Quote from: "chrome"Hi All,

Thought I would come here and give you guys a bit of an update on how things are going....

Well my boyfriend and I are (surprisingly) getting along quite well at the moment. He has become a better person because of his faith and I have tried to be as understanding and accepting as I can... I mean we do have a few disagreements over religion when I bring up anything that opposes his beliefs or bring up Dawkins.

But I have actually started to read the bible and look into religion a lot more just so I can understand it better. I don't think I can call myself an Atheist without knowing about God, the bible and religion. Have learned a great deal lately. One that may surprise a lot of people is that the Witnesses are no more crazy than mainstream Christianity - especially to the people who have blind faith and are told what to believe.

Anyways I'm still trying to find my feet with all this... not sure what direction my partner and I are going at this point... I guess I'm just taking it one day at a time.

Thanks all for listening  :)

Does this mean you will stop posting here?  At lease we hope not...

Quote from: "PoopShoot"That depends on how you define "crazy".  JWs are forbidden from receiving blood transfusions and are highly revered if they're willing to kidnap a child who will receive a transfusion under a court order.  That sounds pretty crazy to me.

Yup agreed that is crazy indeed... but my comment was that they are no more crazy than mainstream Christianity... they do a lot of whacked out things inside their churches!

Quote from: "Tank"Thanks for the update, I was starting to wonder what was going on. Good to see you are coming to an accommodation. I second what Thump said, wise word there. I also think that the JWs can be considered some of the oddest of the odd, but if you can put that to one side then you never know what will happen. Good luck.

aaawww cheers Tank... yeah things are getting better - although still think I'm way more tolerant and understanding of his beliefs than he is of mine. I made a comment to him recently about how he needs to be understanding of my beliefs too - and his response was 'understanding, understanding of what... you believe in nothing!' hmm  :)

Does this mean you will stop posting here? :D don't think you'll be getting rid of me that easy   Nah I'll defiantly keep posting on here - everyone is so hospitable and friendly... plus all you guys make interesting conversation.

Quote from: "SSY"...An intimate partner is one you make long term life decisions with, and I would not be willing to have my future affected by their irrational beliefs, nor the futures of any children we may have. And aside from all that, I do not want to rely on someone in a crisis who really believes that telepathically begging a magical sky daddy will help us when the shit hits the fan.

^^^ THIS. Perfectly sums up my own intro thread, where I describe the situation that literally scares me half to death seeing my girl fall even deeper into her faith when it was simply a depressing act of nature. I love her way too much to even consider leaving her over religious differences, but I feel like SSY in that I can't trust someone with a family or serious life decisions when 1) They hold an invisible man in the sky over their family (towards the beginning of the relationship she told me that the thing she loves most in life is God... I didn't take that as a sign of things to come)..... and 2), "when the shit hits the fan" and things start falling apart I'm not going to be the one keeping things together while she's on her knees praying for salvation.