New atheist here, short story

[yodachoda]

Hey all.  So I'm not sure if I'm technically an atheist, but close enough.  Probably around 90% sure God does not exist.  I feel so "alone" in being an atheist ATM and am kinda depressed.

Anyway, here's my story.  Grew up in a hardcore christian family.  Was around 75% sure God existed.  Then I heard about the theory of evolution and my faith dropped slightly.  Then I really learned about the theory of evolution and the evidence, and my faith plummeted quickly to near zero % chance God exists.

Would you all agree that it's near impossible to NOT be an atheist after you accept evolution and learn how it really works?  Why exactly did you turn to atheism?  If it wasn't for evolution, I'd certainly be a theist today. 

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome!

I guess it depends on your belief system to begin with.Those who believe more strongly in creationism (usually for moral reasons rather than evidence-based, since all the evidence and mathematical models so far all point to evolution with a common ancestor).

There are theists that accept evolution, Kenneth Miller, who was one of the expert witnesses in the Dover trial (against teaching Intelligent design in schools) and Francis Collins, who was an important part of the Human Genome Project.

So...no. It is possible that beliefs be accommodated.  

[yodachoda]

I mean, those who have reconciled evolution with God must admit the following statement is true, right?

"Evolution shows that the amount of work God had to do to create all life is nearly the same exact amount of work he'd have had to do if he never existed."

I mean, once scientists create a self-replicating organism from nothing in the lab, it's pretty much over.  But due to evolution, the work he had to do is so tiny compared to the work he'd have to do if he didn't exist in the first place. 

So I don't understand those who say evolution does not affect theism at all.  They just seem deeply deeply contradictory to me, and I have an incredibly hard time seeing how evolution and God can both be true at the same time. 

[Sandra Craft]

Would you all agree that it's near impossible to NOT be an atheist after you accept evolution and learn how it really works?  Why exactly did you turn to atheism?  If it wasn't for evolution, I'd certainly be a theist today. 

Altho I am an atheist (at least as far as personal gods go) I wouldn't agree with that at all.  I know any number of religious people who accept evolution, for crying at loud even Dr. Laura accepts it!  There's nothing in the theory of evolution or in natural selection that says how things started, it only explains how they continue, grow, change and die out -- plenty of room there for a theist or deist to believe that god created that mechanism.

[yodachoda]

Would you all agree that it's near impossible to NOT be an atheist after you accept evolution and learn how it really works?  Why exactly did you turn to atheism?  If it wasn't for evolution, I'd certainly be a theist today. 

Altho I am an atheist (at least as far as personal gods go) I wouldn't agree with that at all.  I know any number of religious people who accept evolution, for crying at loud even Dr. Laura accepts it!  There's nothing in the theory of evolution or in natural selection that says how things started, it only explains how they continue, grow, change and die out -- plenty of room there for a theist or deist to believe that god created that mechanism.

I would argue that these people don't properly understand evolution, or haven't thought it over carefully.  Evolution isn't a mechanism that even needs any inventing or creating.  It just happens...

[Tank]

Hi Yodachoda

Well being English I avoided the worst effects of theism so never really believed. But as a kid I loved biology (still do) and as I lived a few miles from Downe house, where Charles Darwin lived, I never had a problem with understanding evolution. There are people who can believe in God and have no problem with evolution. Ken Miller is a catholic believer who stood up for evolution against ID you can see him do his stuff here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

Personally I think that once a person understands evolution then belief in an interventionist theistic God is an act of epic compartmentalisation but many people achieve it.

I'm sure a few weeks here will give you a chance to work through your angst on this matter, whatever the result may be.

Thanks for making the effort to sign up and join in.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

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[Tank]

I mean, those who have reconciled evolution with God must admit the following statement is true, right?

"Evolution shows that the amount of work God had to do to create all life is nearly the same exact amount of work he'd have had to do if he never existed."

I mean, once scientists create a self-replicating organism from nothing in the lab, it's pretty much over.  But due to evolution, the work he had to do is so tiny compared to the work he'd have to do if he didn't exist in the first place. 

So I don't understand those who say evolution does not affect theism at all.  They just seem deeply deeply contradictory to me, and I have an incredibly hard time seeing how evolution and God can both be true at the same time. 

Well I don't think both can both be true. But I'm not an atheist because of my understanding of evolution, I'm an atheist because I have not seen any reasonable eveidence of the existance of any sort of deity.

[xSilverPhinx]

I really don't know that many theists who accept evolution personally (there are a couple of regular theist posters here, maybe they could describe their beliefs). Ken Miller mentioned that he believes that his god helped through the tough bits, though I don't know what he considers to be the tough bits. Others have a slightly more deistic (god doesn't interfere) approach in regards to the mechanisms that drive evolution, in which god sets up the dominoes, topples the first one and lets things take their course.

Were you a literalist before you deconverted? What did you believe?

[Sandra Craft]

I would argue that these people don't properly understand evolution, or haven't thought it over carefully.  Evolution isn't a mechanism that even needs any inventing or creating.  It just happens...

But how did it start to happen?  That's where theists have a toehold in accepting evolutionary theory and believing in a god.

In any case, like Tank my atheism has nothing to do with evolutionary theory or natural selection, altho unlike Tank I did start out with a very conservative Xtian upbringing.  I just couldn't see any convincing evidence for the sort of god I was being told existed and, after reading the bible cover to cover, came to realize that I considered its supernatural claims nonsense.  That was the beginning of the end of religion in my life.

[yodachoda]

Before I deconverted, I believed God is real and created all life but not literally in 7 days like the bible said.  I thought 7 days was an allegory for 3.8 billion years of slow creation.  So when I first heard about evolution, I thought if it as simple "change of species over time".  Well, I thought, that's perfectly fine if God created this way.  

Then, a few years later (I'm 24 now), I learned how evolution actually works and some of the evidence for it.  So I lived my whole life believing in God.  I'm not an atheist because "there's no evidence for God".  I've assumed God exists almost my whole life.  I'm an atheist because I feel I've been sufficiently convinced that too much doesn't make sense if he exists.  

One example of a fact that has profoundly influenced me is the vagus nerve in giraffes.  It seems ridiculous that just a tiny little thing like this can affect whether I believe in God, but if a theist can somehow explain why God would create the vagus nerve this way, or "guide" evolution this way, then I might be swayed away from atheism.  

[xSilverPhinx]

One example of a fact that has profoundly influenced me is the vagus nerve in giraffes.  It seems ridiculous that just a tiny little thing like this can affect whether I believe in God, but if a theist can somehow explain why God would create the vagus nerve this way, or "guide" evolution this way, then I might be swayed away from atheism.  

God isn't a very good/efficient designer?

Hopefully Ecrub can chime in...

[yodachoda]

I would argue that these people don't properly understand evolution, or haven't thought it over carefully.  Evolution isn't a mechanism that even needs any inventing or creating.  It just happens...

But how did it start to happen?  That's where theists have a toehold in accepting evolutionary theory and believing in a god.

In any case, like Tank my atheism has nothing to do with evolutionary theory or natural selection, altho unlike Tank I did start out with a very conservative Xtian upbringing.  I just couldn't see any convincing evidence for the sort of god I was being told existed and, after reading the bible cover to cover, came to realize that I considered its supernatural claims nonsense.  That was the beginning of the end of religion in my life.

If you accept evolution, it either started as:

A - God created one microscopic self replicating molecule.

B - Chance chemical reactions created one microscopic self replicating molecule.  

If the answer is A, then the amount of work God needed to do is SO tiny, nearly zero.  If the answer is B, then the amount of work God needed to do in order for life to exist as we see it today is the EXACT SAME as the amount of work he'd be required to do if he didn't even exist.  

Here's an analogy. According to evolution, if we find a planet w/ no life, but similar conditions to Earth, we can plant a single bacteria there and ~3.8 billion years later we will find complex diverse life. All it would take is a human placing a bacteria on that planet, which is not a lot of work.

Now imagine if lighting can hit that imaginary planet and create a self-replicating molecule. 3.8 billion years later, there is complex diverse intelligent life. How much "work" do we humans have to do to create life on that planet? ANswer = The same amount of work as if we didn't even exist.

[Tank]

yodachoda did you ever see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zVu0TvcVqM the Inside Natures giants episode on the giraffe?

[CAlden]

Welcome!

[Whitney]

welcome to HAF.

Personally, I don't think evolution has much to do with if a god exists or not...it only affects certain views of the Biblical God.

But, let's not discuss serious topics in the intro area.