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General => Philosophy => Topic started by: Dave on March 14, 2017, 08:41:29 AM

Title: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2017, 08:41:29 AM
This idea has just come to me.

I find it difficult to retain some things, like the meanings of some words, formulae, the laws of physics etc and this has been something of a drag on my intellectual development in life. It's not an old age thing (though that does not help) but, in intellectual areas, has lasted all my life.

So, very often, I have to review, revise or relearn the same things over and again. My idea is that this "renewal" process means that I often look at things afresh, in different contexts, and spot different facets or aspects each time. Of course, 99% of the time research indicates the idea has been found before but it is new to me in this instance.

Just have to hope that one day, I will have the Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything but, more importantly, spot it and have the courage and means to implement it!

;)
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: joeactor on March 14, 2017, 01:31:42 PM
I can relate. My memory has never been stellar. I'm astounded when people can pull dates and event timelines from their life as if it just happened. I'd have trouble remembering what I ate for breakfast if it wasn't the same thing every day!

Still, I compensate by keeping lots of notes. It does help in the creative process. But many I never revisit or take action on.

I do wish I was better at memorizing. Doing a full stage play was always hard. Maybe that's why I do voice work. No memorization!
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2017, 11:43:24 PM
I was just thinking about this, and it seems to me that sometimes even though you don't consciously recall something, it could be that there is subconscious processing of accumulated experience going on in the mental background which births an idea, creative solution or insight when you least expect it.

I don't know how creativity works but I think that since some memories tend to lose detail over time and become more abstract, you are better able to apply their content and learnings to other areas more easily. If they were contextually precise that might not be so easy.

(This is pure speculation!)   
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 10, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2017, 11:43:24 PM
I was just thinking about this, and it seems to me that sometimes even though you don't consciously recall something, it could be that there is subconscious processing of accumulated experience going on in the mental background which births an idea, creative solution or insight when you least expect it.

I don't know how creativity works but I think that since some memories tend to lose detail over time and become more abstract, you are better able to apply their content and learnings to other areas more easily. If they were contextually precise that might not be so easy.

(This is pure speculation!)   

I like your thinking, Silver! It just occured to me that my memory is a bit like my junk box (but there us nit such thing as junk!). A bix gull of bits of this and that which just need repurposing. I used to love a series on TV where a couple of weird guys (think little skinny hairy, bearded one plus huge, fat, bald biker) make all kinds of great dtuff out of bits of other things - like the "Soap Dragon" that blew clouds of bubbles (do you have "The Clangers" over there?)

Perhaps this is where the "creativity" bit comes in, repurposing bIts of, or even whole, ideas. It is rarely that true invention occurs, most "innovation" consists of assembling existing things, theories or concepts in a new shape IMO.

The cluttered mind can be a useful resource!

The combination of the cluttered and incisive minds, the Jack-of-all-trades assistant/tech + specialist, practical + intellectual, can be potent.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Bad Penny II on October 10, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2017, 11:43:24 PM
I was just thinking about this, and it seems to me that sometimes even though you don't consciously recall something, it could be that there is subconscious processing of accumulated experience going on in the mental background which births an idea, creative solution or insight when you least expect it.

I'm not sure about this.
I'll have to sleep on it.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:21:08 AM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 10, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2017, 11:43:24 PM
I was just thinking about this, and it seems to me that sometimes even though you don't consciously recall something, it could be that there is subconscious processing of accumulated experience going on in the mental background which births an idea, creative solution or insight when you least expect it.

I'm not sure about this.
I'll have to sleep on it.

Well? :grin: You're a creative guy, what do you think?
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: Dave on October 10, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
The combination of the cluttered and incisive minds, the Jack-of-all-trades assistant/tech + specialist, practical + intellectual, can be potent.

I like your new Jack-of-all-trades avatar, Dave!  8)
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 05:06:52 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: Dave on October 10, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
The combination of the cluttered and incisive minds, the Jack-of-all-trades assistant/tech + specialist, practical + intellectual, can be potent.

I like your new Jack-of-all-trades avatar, Dave!  8)

Me too, Dave, you are such a card.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 12, 2017, 06:49:06 AM
Quote from: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 05:06:52 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: Dave on October 10, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
The combination of the cluttered and incisive minds, the Jack-of-all-trades assistant/tech + specialist, practical + intellectual, can be potent.

I like your new Jack-of-all-trades avatar, Dave!  8)

Me too, Dave, you are such a card.

Thanks, folks, but the guitar playing (in 1968) was a bit of a failure! Can't have every can we?
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 07:28:10 AM
I have a terrible, embarrassingly bad, memory for names. About 2 minutes after an introduction, the person's name has already evaporated from my brain. On the other hand, when I learn new software with all its shortcuts and commands, I just have to see something once and I never forget it. I never get confused when I switch between all the different applications I like to use. The same applied when I was studying chemistry - never had any problem remembering quite complex reaction sequences. Does this show that I am not really interested in people?
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 12, 2017, 07:38:11 AM
Quote from: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 07:28:10 AM
I have a terrible, embarrassingly bad, memory for names. About 2 minutes after an introduction, the person's name has already evaporated from my brain. On the other hand, when I learn new software with all its shortcuts and commands, I just have to see something once and I never forget it. I never get confused when I switch between all the different applications I like to use. The same applied when I was studying chemistry - never had any problem remembering quite complex reaction sequences. Does this show that I am not really interested in people?

I think I have it worse than you, Hermes! Mine extends from personal names to objects, formulae etc etc. I had to rely a lot on mnemomics in training! I still a have slight dyslexia for almost synonyms, like "hotel" and "hospital"(both large buildings with lots of beds.)

I found this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomic_aphasia) of interest and it might tickle Silver's antennae as well. ;)
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 07:48:25 AM
Quote from: Dave on October 12, 2017, 07:38:11 AM
Quote from: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 07:28:10 AM
I have a terrible, embarrassingly bad, memory for names. About 2 minutes after an introduction, the person's name has already evaporated from my brain. On the other hand, when I learn new software with all its shortcuts and commands, I just have to see something once and I never forget it. I never get confused when I switch between all the different applications I like to use. The same applied when I was studying chemistry - never had any problem remembering quite complex reaction sequences. Does this show that I am not really interested in people?

I think I have it worse than you, Hermes! Mine extends from personal names to objects, formulae etc etc. I had to rely a lot on mnemomics in training! I still a have slight dyslexia for almost synonyms, like "hotel" and "hospital"(both large buildings with lots of beds.)

I found this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomic_aphasia) of interest and it might tickle Silver's antennae as well. ;)

Thanks, that is an interesting entry. Only some parts of it apply to me, in that I am usually very articulate and easily find the right words to use on the fly in a conversation. It's my problem with people's names that is embarrassing. A friend says it shows I have a disdain for humans.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Tank on October 12, 2017, 07:53:25 AM
Quote from: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 07:28:10 AM
I have a terrible, embarrassingly bad, memory for names. About 2 minutes after an introduction, the person's name has already evaporated from my brain. On the other hand, when I learn new software with all its shortcuts and commands, I just have to see something once and I never forget it. I never get confused when I switch between all the different applications I like to use. The same applied when I was studying chemistry - never had any problem remembering quite complex reaction sequences. Does this show that I am not really interested in people?
You are not alone! There is a person who has a worse memory for names than I do. But I can't remember his name!
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 08:10:21 AM
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2017, 07:53:25 AM
Quote from: hermes2015 on October 12, 2017, 07:28:10 AM
I have a terrible, embarrassingly bad, memory for names. About 2 minutes after an introduction, the person's name has already evaporated from my brain. On the other hand, when I learn new software with all its shortcuts and commands, I just have to see something once and I never forget it. I never get confused when I switch between all the different applications I like to use. The same applied when I was studying chemistry - never had any problem remembering quite complex reaction sequences. Does this show that I am not really interested in people?
You are not alone! There is a person who has a worse memory for names than I do. But I can't remember his name!

:lol:
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 12, 2017, 08:20:48 AM
I seem to have a 3D memory, I remember shapes well. I can think in 3D, mentally "see" every detail of the structure of the large test rig I designed and built over 20 years ago.

I can even erect flatpack furniture without instructions! But that is as much visualisation as memory of previous, similar tasks,
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Bad Penny II on October 12, 2017, 09:17:06 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:21:08 AM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 10, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2017, 11:43:24 PM
I was just thinking about this, and it seems to me that sometimes even though you don't consciously recall something, it could be that there is subconscious processing of accumulated experience going on in the mental background which births an idea, creative solution or insight when you least expect it.

I'm not sure about this.
I'll have to sleep on it.

Well? :grin: You're a creative guy, what do you think?

I think "sleeping on it" is a bit like what you were talking about.

Anyway I think there has been a divergence in our interest in neuroscience.
You seem to be taking a conventional approach, I'm interested in the zombie brain.
The human brain can suffer quite a lot of damage and the human can still function,
whereas your zombie will always cease functioning when their brain is damaged, why?
I've found the establishment neuroscience community to be hostile to my research.
They have sabotaged my projects and I've had to change identity several times.
I regret to say I can't fully trust you since you've become a part of the system.
I won't accuse you of being part of the zombie conspiracy, you'd probably just
laugh it off and say something like "ha ha, oh you've got me there, ha ha ha."
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:16:53 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 12, 2017, 09:17:06 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:21:08 AM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 10, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2017, 11:43:24 PM
I was just thinking about this, and it seems to me that sometimes even though you don't consciously recall something, it could be that there is subconscious processing of accumulated experience going on in the mental background which births an idea, creative solution or insight when you least expect it.

I'm not sure about this.
I'll have to sleep on it.

Well? :grin: You're a creative guy, what do you think?

I think "sleeping on it" is a bit like what you were talking about.

Anyway I think there has been a divergence in our interest in neuroscience.
You seem to be taking a conventional approach, I'm interested in the zombie brain.
The human brain can suffer quite a lot of damage and the human can still function,
whereas your zombie will always cease functioning when their brain is damaged, why?
I've found the establishment neuroscience community to be hostile to my research.
They have sabotaged my projects and I've had to change identity several times.
I regret to say I can't fully trust you since you've become a part of the system.
I won't accuse you of being part of the zombie conspiracy, you'd probably just
laugh it off and say something like "ha ha, oh you've got me there, ha ha ha."

:lol:

:secrets1: Actually, since Trump became president of the US my interest in the zombie brain grew...how can a thing still walk, talk and breathe without the higher order functioning? Just don't tell the establishment!
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Bad Penny II on October 12, 2017, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:16:53 PM
:secrets1: Actually, since Trump became president of the US my interest in the zombie brain grew...how can a thing still walk, talk and breathe without the higher order functioning? Just don't tell the establishment!

Wasp infiltration.

Why are they doing it?
What are their plans?
I could tell but I wont.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 12, 2017, 02:35:11 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2017, 01:16:53 PM
:secrets1: Actually, since Trump became president of the US my interest in the zombie brain grew...how can a thing still walk, talk and breathe without the higher order functioning? Just don't tell the establishment!

Wasp infiltration.

Why are they doing it?
What are their plans?
I could tell but I wont.

Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 01:27:17 AM
Sometimes I forget a name I've known forever.  My theory is that some gateway or trigger neuron has died and I can't access the information.  Eventually my brain reforms a circuit working around the dead neuron and then I have access to it again. Could not come up with Leonardo DiCaprio's name yesterday. I let it sit there for awhile and finally my brain engineered a work-around.  Brain plasticity.  Of course, eventually too many neurons die and it's lights out.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Bruce, Dave, Others, if it is any consolation I have the same annoying....nay maddening...problem part of the time.  Yesterday, I could not recall the name of the popular commercial hustler, giant guy, who was a basketball player. Of course it was Shaquille O'neal. That one needed nearly an hour of brain strain to recall.  On the other hand I can remember maybe 50 or more names of my high school classmates.  Ossified brain cells are a bitch. Some of those cells are flawed, others do not seem so bad.

The worst of it is that I once had a fairly well developed vocabulary. Words, their meanings,and connotations were an item of interest even when I was a juvenile.  When I write, like on this forum, I begin to construct a sentence and before it is complete I can not think of the word that I intended to use a fraction of a second before..  That is really a maddening situation. Later I will recall the intended word but in the short term I have to resort to a synonym or alternative word of some sort. The realization that I am an unusually old human with legitimately contracted diminished capacity is little comfort.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 13, 2017, 02:25:12 AM
I have the same problem, and I don't know what exactly what's going on there...is an important neuron in the ensemble of a specific memory dead? Is it still there but has the connection weakened or is being interfered with? Are there other processes competing for attention which diminish the capacity to recall a specific memory at a given time?   

:scratch:

Quote from: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
The worst of it is that I once had a fairly well developed vocabulary. Words, their meanings,and connotations were an item of interest even when I was a juvenile.  When I write, like on this forum, I begin to construct a sentence and before it is complete I can not think of the word that I intended to use a fraction of a second before..  That is really a maddening situation. Later I will recall the intended word but in the short term I have to resort to a synonym or alternative word of some sort. The realization that I am an unusually old human with legitimately contracted diminished capacity is little comfort.

Have you been tested for anomic aphasia, Icarus? Does this happen frequently?
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 03:26:49 AM
Quote from: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Bruce, Dave, Others, if it is any consolation I have the same annoying....nay maddening...problem part of the time.  Yesterday, I could not recall the name of the popular commercial hustler, giant guy, who was a basketball player. Of course it was Shaquille O'neal. That one needed nearly an hour of brain strain to recall.  On the other hand I can remember maybe 50 or more names of my high school classmates.  Ossified brain cells are a bitch. Some of those cells are flawed, others do not seem so bad.

The worst of it is that I once had a fairly well developed vocabulary. Words, their meanings,and connotations were an item of interest even when I was a juvenile.  When I write, like on this forum, I begin to construct a sentence and before it is complete I can not think of the word that I intended to use a fraction of a second before..  That is really a maddening situation. Later I will recall the intended word but in the short term I have to resort to a synonym or alternative word of some sort. The realization that I am an unusually old human with legitimately contracted diminished capacity is little comfort.

But aren't you in your 90's?  Hell, you've beaten the odds.  The fact that you can still type coherent sentences is amazing.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Tank on October 13, 2017, 08:47:11 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 03:26:49 AM
Quote from: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Bruce, Dave, Others, if it is any consolation I have the same annoying....nay maddening...problem part of the time.  Yesterday, I could not recall the name of the popular commercial hustler, giant guy, who was a basketball player. Of course it was Shaquille O'neal. That one needed nearly an hour of brain strain to recall.  On the other hand I can remember maybe 50 or more names of my high school classmates.  Ossified brain cells are a bitch. Some of those cells are flawed, others do not seem so bad.

The worst of it is that I once had a fairly well developed vocabulary. Words, their meanings,and connotations were an item of interest even when I was a juvenile.  When I write, like on this forum, I begin to construct a sentence and before it is complete I can not think of the word that I intended to use a fraction of a second before..  That is really a maddening situation. Later I will recall the intended word but in the short term I have to resort to a synonym or alternative word of some sort. The realization that I am an unusually old human with legitimately contracted diminished capacity is little comfort.

But aren't you in your 90's?  Hell, you've beaten the odds.  The fact that you can still type coherent sentences is amazing.
If I recall correctly Icarus was 11 at Pearl Harbour which would make 1930 the year of his birth. So he's 87 or there abouts.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 13, 2017, 08:47:11 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 03:26:49 AM
Quote from: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Bruce, Dave, Others, if it is any consolation I have the same annoying....nay maddening...problem part of the time.  Yesterday, I could not recall the name of the popular commercial hustler, giant guy, who was a basketball player. Of course it was Shaquille O'neal. That one needed nearly an hour of brain strain to recall.  On the other hand I can remember maybe 50 or more names of my high school classmates.  Ossified brain cells are a bitch. Some of those cells are flawed, others do not seem so bad.

The worst of it is that I once had a fairly well developed vocabulary. Words, their meanings,and connotations were an item of interest even when I was a juvenile.  When I write, like on this forum, I begin to construct a sentence and before it is complete I can not think of the word that I intended to use a fraction of a second before..  That is really a maddening situation. Later I will recall the intended word but in the short term I have to resort to a synonym or alternative word of some sort. The realization that I am an unusually old human with legitimately contracted diminished capacity is little comfort.

But aren't you in your 90's?  Hell, you've beaten the odds.  The fact that you can still type coherent sentences is amazing.
If I recall correctly Icarus was 11 at Pearl Harbour which would make 1930 the year of his birth. So he's 87 or there abouts.

Still pretty good.  That's about 8 years more than the average male lifespan in the US, and he's still going strong.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 13, 2017, 07:04:32 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 13, 2017, 08:47:11 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2017, 03:26:49 AM
Quote from: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 01:58:56 AM
Bruce, Dave, Others, if it is any consolation I have the same annoying....nay maddening...problem part of the time.  Yesterday, I could not recall the name of the popular commercial hustler, giant guy, who was a basketball player. Of course it was Shaquille O'neal. That one needed nearly an hour of brain strain to recall.  On the other hand I can remember maybe 50 or more names of my high school classmates.  Ossified brain cells are a bitch. Some of those cells are flawed, others do not seem so bad.

The worst of it is that I once had a fairly well developed vocabulary. Words, their meanings,and connotations were an item of interest even when I was a juvenile.  When I write, like on this forum, I begin to construct a sentence and before it is complete I can not think of the word that I intended to use a fraction of a second before..  That is really a maddening situation. Later I will recall the intended word but in the short term I have to resort to a synonym or alternative word of some sort. The realization that I am an unusually old human with legitimately contracted diminished capacity is little comfort.

But aren't you in your 90's?  Hell, you've beaten the odds.  The fact that you can still type coherent sentences is amazing.
If I recall correctly Icarus was 11 at Pearl Harbour which would make 1930 the year of his birth. So he's 87 or there abouts.

Still pretty good.  That's about 8 years more than the average male lifespan in the US, and he's still going strong.

Looks like I have 8 and a bit more to survive to hit the UK average. Already beating the odds on my prognosis after my heart attack and actually feel better this year than last.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Icarus on October 13, 2017, 08:44:17 PM
Yep, 87 and probably the luckiest guy in seven counties because I am as active as some people half my age.   

About the memory thing. It is about words not things.  My wife is 71, she has no problem with words but she loses things a lot. I am like a bird dog because I can find her lost keys, or whatever she has misplaced.  I think that I can find her lost items because I have seen them and have a faculty for recalling where it was that I saw the item.   Those location recollections are good for long periods of time even months.

It is not surprising that I have no trouble remembering, and instantly voicing, profane words when I stub my toe or hit my thumb with a hammer. 

Dave is anomic aphasia similar to the disease called CRS?  ;D

Actually, No I do not have difficulty expressing thoughts or ideas that is typical of the aphasia condition.

Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 13, 2017, 08:57:56 PM
QuoteDave is anomic aphasia similar to the disease called CRS? 

Dunno, Icarus, can't find anythjng pertinent searching on CRS, but from the grin I am guessing there is a joke in there.

Just flagged up anomic asphasia 'cos it looked interesting and I was looking for problems remembering names, think I put "dysnomia" in. I often suffer "dysbrainia" myself.

There is such thing as as dysnomia (https://www.parentingspecialneeds.org/article/dysnomia/) but when I first looked I only saw stuff about a godess or something, missed the other link.

Think I also suffer tabletkeyboardtypoia.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Icarus on October 14, 2017, 05:41:41 AM
Dave, the term CRS is an  American expression that describes a condition that pretends to be a disease... It means: Can't Remember Shit.
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: Dave on October 14, 2017, 05:52:52 AM
Quote from: Icarus on October 14, 2017, 05:41:41 AM
Dave, the term CRS is an  American expression that describes a condition that pretends to be a disease... It means: Can't Remember Shit.

Ah, OK, that is definitely a real problem!
Title: Re: A bad memory can be creative
Post by: xSilverPhinx on April 07, 2018, 08:50:44 PM
I've been thinking, certain memories are dynamic...I wonder if more highly creative people will have more precise (less loss of detail) or more generic (more loss of detail) memories. :notsure: 

Maybe more highly creative people are more susceptible to interference, in which newer memories interfere with older ones?