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Another Mass Shooting

Started by Recusant, October 02, 2017, 06:58:25 PM

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Sandra Craft

Quote from: Dave on February 15, 2018, 08:12:42 AM
Wonder what the NRAs response will be this time.


The same as it always is: "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

In the meantime, this was posted on FB by Craig Hardegree, which I think is a brilliant response to the same old/same old thinking -- not that it will make any difference:

"Thoughts and prayers.

Useless and meaningless.

Why do conservatives favor laws restricting the free flow of opioids into our society? Can't we just send our thoughts and prayers to families of victims? Can't we just pray away the evil and leave the drugs to be freely used by law-abiding citizens who have a legitimate need for them?

Why do conservatives favor laws restricting abortion? Can't we just send our thoughts and prayers to the fetuses?

Why do conservatives favor laws restricting marriage? Can't they just pray that their one man or one woman won't cheat on them or beat on them, instead of trying to use laws to restrict the rights of others in order to "strengthen traditional marriage"?

Why do conservatives favor laws restricting a person's gender to the one printed on her birth certificate? Can't they just send us some thoughts and prayers and otherwise stay the hell out of our business?

When a terrorist tried to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb, we didn't send thoughts and prayers; we made everyone remove their shoes at the airport.

When a terrorist tried to blow up a plane with a six-inch bottle of PETN sewn into his underwear, we didn't send thoughts and prayers; we restricted bottles to three ounces and started looking inside everyone's underwear.

Why do conservatives want to use the power of the federal government to dictate the most intimate personal none-of-their-business details of the lives of law-abiding citizens, but only want to use "thought and prayers" to try to curb the scourge of mass shootings in America?"
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Dave

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 15, 2018, 09:41:19 AM
Quote from: Dave on February 15, 2018, 08:12:42 AM
Wonder what the NRAs response will be this time.


The same as it always is: "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

To which the response is, "Then only total idiots would give millions of random people access to potential instruments of death when a percentage of those will inevitably suffer adverse psychological or psychiatric change at some point in their life."

Perhaps only bolt action rifles and single action revolvers should be allowed to the general public, if they insist on bring armed. You can still competition shoot and hunt with those but they give victims half a chance.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Biggus Dickus

So for those of us living in the USofA, 2018 has come down to watching children live tweet "mass shootings" at their schools, while other kids who've survived school shootings talk them through it.



"Some people just need a high-five. In the face. With a chair."

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Dave on February 15, 2018, 11:58:47 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 15, 2018, 09:41:19 AM
Quote from: Dave on February 15, 2018, 08:12:42 AM
Wonder what the NRAs response will be this time.


The same as it always is: "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

To which the response is, "Then only total idiots would give millions of random people access to potential instruments of death when a percentage of those will inevitably suffer adverse psychological or psychiatric change at some point in their life."


The NRA believes that more guns will mean less gun violence the same way the GOP believes in trickle-down economics -- it's never worked before but keep trying that one solution because maybe someday magic will make it work.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Icarus

I am on board with those of us who are rational thinkers about gun violence, or any other kind of senseless violence.  In the case of the shooter here in South Florida, it could have been predicted that the young man was in danger of coming unglued. He was a decent looking kid but he was slight of build and would have been vulnerable to bullying. Add that to the fact that he had lost both his mother and father to untimely deaths, he was living in an adopted home and he is slightly autistic.  That is a perfect setup for having an episode of behavior that has the strong potential for becoming totally irrational.

This is certainly not to apologize for that young mans decision to wreak havoc on innocent high school students. It is to wonder why he could not have been recognized as a potential danger. Our system is failing us in terms of gun control but also in terms of failure to recognize potential danger.

I will not keep the families of the murdered students in my thoughts and prayers but I will honestly shed some tears for them.

Dave

Just been listening to some interviews with the kids who durbived the latest shooting. Mostly of the, "We want answers and solutions, not appologies, excuses or condolences" variety. But (recognising the editing policy) one boy, leader of the school cadet unit, csme out with the usual, "We don't need gun cintrol, it's people that kill. If the school guard had had a gun he could have taken the shooter out earlier.

The irony that schools need guards, let alone armed guards, seemed to pass him by. It spoke volumes about gunners' expectations of what constitutes "normal" life.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Davin

I don't see how the kid could even have used the AR15 in that way. I mean guns are for protection right?
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Ecurb Noselrub

The FBI dropped the ball on this one. They were clearly warned - twice - about this guy, and did not follow up. They have admitted they screwed up.

Dave

#128
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on February 16, 2018, 07:47:07 PM
The FBI dropped the ball on this one. They were clearly warned - twice - about this guy, and did not follow up. They have admitted they screwed up.

It's a side issue but this sort of thing may give Trump further ammo to undermine the FBI. In his usual hypocritical way using it to take the focus off the real issue - the proliferation of guns - and onto poor monitoring and control of mental illness. Whilst probably cutting funds needed for measures to fix those problems to pay for border walls etc.

Later: I should add to this that if the FBI had to fully investigate every gun owner or person with access reported as being dodgy would they have time for anything else?
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus

The reality is that 35,000 FBI people go about their work every day and they prevent hundreds of potential murders every day.  Yes, the local agents or someone some where along the line, dropped the ball on this one.  It was a serious lapse.  We will never know how many other tragedies that they prevented on the very same day. They do not get much publicity about the positive things that they do.


Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Icarus on February 16, 2018, 11:38:37 PM
The reality is that 35,000 FBI people go about their work every day and they prevent hundreds of potential murders every day.  Yes, the local agents or someone some where along the line, dropped the ball on this one.  It was a serious lapse.  We will never know how many other tragedies that they prevented on the very same day. They do not get much publicity about the positive things that they do.

Agreed. They do a great job and drop few balls.  Unfortunately, this is one they dropped.

Dave

Quote from: Icarus on February 16, 2018, 11:38:37 PM
The reality is that 35,000 FBI people go about their work every day and they prevent hundreds of potential murders every day.  Yes, the local agents or someone some where along the line, dropped the ball on this one.  It was a serious lapse.  We will never know how many other tragedies that they prevented on the very same day. They do not get much publicity about the positive things that they do.

The last part is so true, a thousand successes are just accepted as normal, a single error can not to be tolerated. Though this was, unfortunately, a significant error.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tom62

The German satire site "Der Postillon" had a hilarious article about it  (http://www.der-postillon.com/2018/02/nra-schulen.html). For those of you who don't speak German, here follows the (Google) translation.

Quote
Thursday, February 15, 2018
US arms lobby calls for ban on schools

Parkland, Fairfax (dpo) - Following the recent rampage of a 17-death school in Florida, Florida, initial political consequences could soon follow. To prevent such mishaps in the future, the US arms lobby NRA (National Rifle Association) has called for a nationwide ban on schools.

"After a tragedy like parkland, there are always hysterical voices that want to regulate or even ban weapons," explains NRA chief Wayne LaPierre. "But according to our surveys, weapons are not the main cause of school massacres, but schools."

In 2018, for example, there were already 18 shootings at US schools, while in the entire history of the United States, no school massacre has ever been done outside a school.

"If we want to protect our children, then we have to close those terrible places and barricade ourselves armed to their teeth at home," says LaPierre. "You'll see that as soon as there are no more schools in the US, the number of school shootings and mass murders in schools will quickly fall to zero."

The NRA's plan is likely to find many supporters in Washington - after all, schools with educational themes such as evolution, global warming, geography, human reproduction, and other socialist propaganda have long been a thorn in the side of many Republicans.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

hermes2015

Quote from: Tom62 on February 17, 2018, 03:52:01 PM
The German satire site "Der Postillon" had a hilarious article about it  (http://www.der-postillon.com/2018/02/nra-schulen.html). For those of you who don't speak German, here follows the (Google) translation.

Quote
Thursday, February 15, 2018
US arms lobby calls for ban on schools

Parkland, Fairfax (dpo) - Following the recent rampage of a 17-death school in Florida, Florida, initial political consequences could soon follow. To prevent such mishaps in the future, the US arms lobby NRA (National Rifle Association) has called for a nationwide ban on schools.

"After a tragedy like parkland, there are always hysterical voices that want to regulate or even ban weapons," explains NRA chief Wayne LaPierre. "But according to our surveys, weapons are not the main cause of school massacres, but schools."

In 2018, for example, there were already 18 shootings at US schools, while in the entire history of the United States, no school massacre has ever been done outside a school.

"If we want to protect our children, then we have to close those terrible places and barricade ourselves armed to their teeth at home," says LaPierre. "You'll see that as soon as there are no more schools in the US, the number of school shootings and mass murders in schools will quickly fall to zero."

The NRA's plan is likely to find many supporters in Washington - after all, schools with educational themes such as evolution, global warming, geography, human reproduction, and other socialist propaganda have long been a thorn in the side of many Republicans.

The sad thing is that the adage many a true word is spoken in jest springs to mind.
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

Icarus

The Germans are displaying a plucky sense of humor.  The article is almost a taunting one and we damned well deserve it. 

At least there is a hue and cry going on all over the nation.  The thrust of the noise is that "thoughts and prayers" are a bullshit remedy for what is wrong with our system.  Let us hope that enough of a backlash will finally persuade our esteemed law makers to get their heads out of their asses.  Why can a teenager not buy beer or tobacco in Florida but he can buy assault rifles and all the ammunition that he wants.

We do not need to ban guns here in the US.  Maybe we could simply make it an involved process to buy ammunition. 

I resent the hell out of the acknowledged need to have "resource officers" (police) stationed in every school in the land.  What have we wrought here?  Has our society degenerated to this level?  Yes. I am afraid that it has.