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General => Current Events => Topic started by: SisterAgatha on November 25, 2017, 09:38:39 PM

Title: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: SisterAgatha on November 25, 2017, 09:38:39 PM
Let's face it. It should be as a surprise to no one that Hillary Clinton lost.

Unlike her husband, Billy boy, Hillary was just plain unlikeable.

She is basically a female version of Nixon: secretive,unethicla, dark, ruthless and (if you can believe what you read!) sort of a potty mouth.

Look at the presidents we like (JFK,Reagen, Bill Clinton, Obama). They are often good looking, and make us think happy inspirational thoughts, about the power of positive thinking, reaching for the stars etc. They remind us of that smart young man we knew in college, our kind wise grandfather, some moneybags preppy boy you used to date but still have fond feelings for etc.

Hillary doesn't remind me of anyone I liked or respected. She is everyones mean grouchy female boss, or shrieky mother in law.

Anyway it goes without saying she lost. Who would want some screechy old battle ax as president, when you could have a washed up casino owner/mobster/ flesh peddling money bags like Trump.

Anyway there is now a Bill and Hillary sized hole in the Democratic party. Who can fill it? Not Elizabeth warren....unless you want Shreiky Screechy Part deux...

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Dave on November 25, 2017, 10:06:08 PM
For once I sgree with uou, Aggie. The Dems have a lot to recover and a new, publicly acceptable, candidate to find.

At the moment it looks as though there is not ine trustable person in either of the main parties. Power politics has been shown as the bottomless shit-pit it really is - in the US and all over the world.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Biggus Dickus on November 25, 2017, 10:19:58 PM
The very fact that Hillary won the popular vote disproves your summation on Hillary, in fact many of us Democrats found her to be most likable, and even more than qualified to be the President.

The surprise, in fact that unimaginable outcome is that someone like Trump could be elected...his win was based on hatred, discrimination and division. Those who voted for him helped put in the highest office in the land, a man who's been endorsed by members of the KKK, a man who's demonstrated every trait we've been taught to despise since kindergarten...lying, cheating, hatefulness, pettiness, name-calling, selfishness, bigotry, bravado, etc,...and a man who cares about nothing but himself. Basically, the exact opposite of what we're taught a president should be, let alone a human being.


Quote from: SisterAgatha on November 25, 2017, 09:38:39 PM
Let's face it. It should be as a surprise to no one that Hillary Clinton lost.

Unlike her husband, Billy boy, Hillary was just plain unlikeable.

She is basically a female version of Nixon: secretive,unethicla, dark, ruthless and (if you can believe what you read!) sort of a potty mouth.

Look at the presidents we like (JFK,Reagen, Bill Clinton, Obama). They are often good looking, and make us think happy inspirational thoughts, about the power of positive thinking, reaching for the stars etc. They remind us of that smart young man we knew in college, our kind wise grandfather, some moneybags preppy boy you used to date but still have fond feelings for etc.

Hillary doesn't remind me of anyone I liked or respected. She is everyones mean grouchy female boss, or shrieky mother in law.

Anyway it goes without saying she lost. Who would want some screechy old battle ax as president, when you could have a washed up casino owner/mobster/ flesh peddling money bags like Trump.

Anyway there is now a Bill and Hillary sized hole in the Democratic party. Who can fill it? Not Elizabeth warren....unless you want Shreiky Screechy Part deux...

Any thoughts?

Yes, the parts of your OP I hi-lighted in red reflect the deep misogynist attitudes you hold and have demonstrated before on this forum.

My thoughts?

I don't like you.

Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Sandra Craft on November 26, 2017, 12:55:03 AM
Quote from: Father Bruno on November 25, 2017, 10:19:58 PM
The very fact that Hillary won the popular vote disproves your summation on Hillary, in fact many of us Democrats found her to be most likable, and even more than qualified to be the President.

I would add that Clinton "lost" because of the outmoded Electoral College which, while useful when originally created, devolved into a system that favored slave-owners in the 1800s and Republicans in the 1900s. 

Quote
My thoughts?

I don't like you.

"Sister" is also a great example of how so many people, particularly women, could have voted for the likes of Trump.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Velma on November 26, 2017, 01:08:18 AM
I have noticed that even other women will often have a negative view of a woman who exhibits leadership skills - the same leadership skills they fawn over in a man.

That said, I've worked with my share of supervisors, managers, or upper management types both male and female. Some were competent, some were not. Competence, or lack thereof, had nothing to do with whether they were male or female.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Magdalena on November 26, 2017, 01:45:45 AM
Quote from: Father Bruno on November 25, 2017, 10:19:58 PM

Yes, the parts of your OP I hi-lighted in red reflect the deep misogynist attitudes you hold and have demonstrated before on this forum.

My thoughts?

I don't like you.

My thoughts?
I agree with you, Father.

I'm beginning to think that our "sister" sounds more like a "brother."  :chin:
...But, that would be just another little lie. --That's all. No big deal. It's just an everyday Catholic thing.  ::) You go to confession, god forgives you, you feel better, and you do it all over again.
(https://i.imgur.com/7xLrejL.gif)
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Icarus on November 26, 2017, 03:26:20 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on November 25, 2017, 09:38:39 PM
Let's face it. It should be as a surprise to no one that Hillary Clinton lost.



Anyway there is now a Bill and Hillary sized hole in the Democratic party. Who can fill it? Not Elizabeth warren....unless you want Shreiky Screechy Part deux...

Any thoughts?


Thoughts: I voted for Hillary but she would not have been my most favored choice of candidates. Here's an asessment.  When Hillary takes her morning constitutional, she flushes more intellectual capacity and political acumen down the drain than our duly elected president has or will ever have in his entire body.

You can be assured that there are many individuals on the left side who have education,,sophistication, knowledge of how our government is structured, has some degree of integrity, and a willingness and ability to examine concepts or situations without the interference of religious influence or party partisanship...... I'm thinking of religious  zealot kooks like Roy Moore here.  I would prefer to think in terms of a person who is equipped with more than shit for brains.....Maybe someone like ...Eric Holder, former attorney general, for example. There are thousands of other intelligent men or women who are thoroughly qualified and less divisive than the ones who get the most ink and who mysteriously win the religious contingent of voters by advertising that you are permitted to grab pussies if you are a star.

Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: jumbojak on November 26, 2017, 06:28:58 AM
I like Franken's chances at this point.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: SisterAgatha on November 26, 2017, 12:17:51 PM
Ifdemocrats insist upon a lady candidate...

This might be their best pick!  https://www.klobuchar.senate.gov/public/
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Davin on November 27, 2017, 02:22:43 PM
Well, if look at what we have now, President "Not Obama" is a little bitch. Hillary is not. President "Not Hillary" can't even stand on his own, he keeps having to fall back on defining himself as not Obama and not Hillary. When is this weak sack of shit going to be strong enough to stand on his own?

But from a religious perspective, wouldn't a religious person be more concerned with saving the Republican party? Or are religions OK with racism, sexism, pedophiles, molesters, liars... etc. They seem to be, but until they start condemning their own, their condemnations of others is meaningless.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Tom62 on November 27, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on November 26, 2017, 12:55:03 AM
I would add that Clinton "lost" because of the outmoded Electoral College which, while useful when originally created, devolved into a system that favored slave-owners in the 1800s and Republicans in the 1900s. 

Former democratic  presidents seem to have won the elections, despite that outmoded Electoral College being in place. Seems to me that Clinton was looking for any excuse to take away the blame from her own poor performance. I think that she was a lousy unpopular candidate and even a worse loser.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Davin on November 27, 2017, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 27, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on November 26, 2017, 12:55:03 AM
I would add that Clinton "lost" because of the outmoded Electoral College which, while useful when originally created, devolved into a system that favored slave-owners in the 1800s and Republicans in the 1900s. 

Former democratic  presidents seem to have won the elections, despite that outmoded Electoral College being in place. Seems to me that Clinton was looking for any excuse to take away the blame from her own poor performance. I think that she was a lousy unpopular candidate and even a worse loser.
She wasn't the first democratic presidential candidate to lose to the college but win the popular vote. Al Gore won the popular vote but still lost to Bush II. I can't think of a single Republican presidential candidate that got the popular vote but lost due to the college.

Despite that, why does your counter point rest on your opinion of Hillary Clinton's character? Why throw out that red herring?

Quote from: Tom62Seems to me that Clinton was looking for any excuse to take away the blame from her own poor performance.
There are many things that went wrong in that election, not all of it was Hillary's fault nor the fault of her campaign. There is blame to go on Hillary, but there is also plenty of blame to go around.

Quote from: Tom62I think that she was a lousy unpopular candidate and even a worse loser.
Lousy? Sure, I guess people can have their opinions, but more lousy than president "Not Obama"? That dude is way lousier than Hillary or any other president before.

How can you say she was unpopular when she won the majority of the votes? That doesn't make any sense.

In what way was she a worse loser? She didn't even ask for a recount, she phoned president "Not Hillary" and congratulated him, and she stepped away from public life for a bit. The facts of what happened don't make sense with your assessment.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Biggus Dickus on November 27, 2017, 08:43:59 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 27, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on November 26, 2017, 12:55:03 AM
I would add that Clinton "lost" because of the outmoded Electoral College which, while useful when originally created, devolved into a system that favored slave-owners in the 1800s and Republicans in the 1900s. 

Former democratic  presidents seem to have won the elections, despite that outmoded Electoral College being in place. Seems to me that Clinton was looking for any excuse to take away the blame from her own poor performance. I think that she was a lousy unpopular candidate and even a worse loser.

I have no issue retrospectively with the Electoral College deciding the winner in this election, but I don't see how you can say she had a "Poor Performance" when she did secure 65,853,516 votes to Trump's 62,984,825 votes, hardly what I would refer to as an "Unpopular Candidate"....I would say Hillary did pretty damn't good.

And why does she have to be quite after loosing the election when past losers continued to speak out afterwards and stayed active not in US Politics (Such a McCain)?



Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Sandra Craft on November 28, 2017, 01:52:53 AM
Quote from: Davin on November 27, 2017, 08:43:46 PM
She wasn't the first democratic presidential candidate to lose to the college but win the popular vote. Al Gore won the popular vote but still lost to Bush II. I can't think of a single Republican presidential candidate that got the popular vote but lost due to the college.

There hasn't been one, I checked.  Every single time the EC has decided an election it's gone to the Republican candidate.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Recusant on November 28, 2017, 03:07:28 AM
The Electoral College is skewed in favor of Republican candidates due to the over-representation of states that are reliably Republican even though it was not ever intended to operate that way.

In answer to the title question, I think the Democratic party could do worse than Jeff Merkley. I hope that the "New Democrat"/Democratic Leadership Council (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council) schtick loses out.

"Meet the Leader of the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy" | Politico (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/19/meet-the-leader-of-the-vast-left-wing-conspiracy-215622)

QuoteAlmost no one knows who he is, but there may be a spot for Jeff Merkley on the left flank of the 2020 Democratic primary—and he wouldn't rule out running even if Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are running.

He's already beaten Warren to Iowa, and he spent more time in Des Moines this month than Sanders has since last year's caucuses.

A senator from Oregon for nearly nine years, Merkley is probably best known for being the only colleague of Sanders to endorse the Vermont senator last year. Most people could walk by him on the street, or even on the Senate subway, and not know who he is—a POLITICO/Morning Consult poll this week showed that 73 percent of Americans had never heard his name.

He has no campaign staff, and has raised no money. But he seems to be hoping that the credibility he has with progressive activists and the wild new world of lefty politics will change all that. So he's starting early, even if the odds don't look great right now.

He has a certain philosophy of life, Merkley said.

"If I believe that something matters, I'll throw myself into it, and I'm OK losing. But when you throw yourself in with that attitude, and you're all about teamwork, sometimes you win," Merkley told me for the latest episode of POLITICO's Off Message podcast, recounting a career that's already taken him through a surprise election as a state representative in Oregon to being picked as speaker of the Statehouse to beating a popular incumbent to get to the Senate in 2008. "I'm willing to take on battles that I feel are important."

Of course, if he does run, first he'll have to figure out how to become known as something more than that-guy-you're-vaguely-aware-of-who-endorsed-Bernie.

[Continues . . . (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/19/meet-the-leader-of-the-vast-left-wing-conspiracy-215622)]
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Tom62 on November 28, 2017, 07:14:33 PM
I think she is a bad loser, because she blamed almost everyone and everything for her loss.
- Sexism
- Bernie Saunders and his followers
- Vladimir Putin
- James Comey
- Barack Obama
- The media
- Jill Stein
- White resentment
- etc.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Davin on November 28, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 28, 2017, 07:14:33 PM
I think she is a bad loser, because she blamed almost everyone and everything for her loss.
You call her a sore loser for looking into and explaining the reasons why she thinks she lost? That doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Recusant on November 28, 2017, 10:32:55 PM
What's worse than a bad loser? A bad (http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2016/nov/28/donald-trump/pants-fire-trumps-claim-about-california-voter-fra/) winner (http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2016/nov/28/donald-trump/trump-claims-serious-voter-fraud-new-hampshire/).
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
Quote from: Davin on November 28, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
Quote from: Tom62 link=topic=15438.msg364151#msg364151 date=159647 Trumop3
I think she is a bad loser, because she blamed almost everyone and everything for her loss.
You call her a sore loser for looking into and explaining the reasons why she thinks she lost? That doesn't make any sense.

To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
I'm not saying that Trump is better. Both were horrible candidates to choose from.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Magdalena on November 29, 2017, 05:39:53 AM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
...
To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
...
Come on, Tom62, don't be shy, don't beat around the bush... :smileshake: Tell us how you really see Hillary Clinton...I don't think you were clear enough.



:grin:
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Davin on November 29, 2017, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
Quote from: Davin on November 28, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
Quote from: Tom62 link=topic=15438.msg364151#msg364151 date=159647 Trumop3
I think she is a bad loser, because she blamed almost everyone and everything for her loss.
You call her a sore loser for looking into and explaining the reasons why she thinks she lost? That doesn't make any sense.

To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
You might need to look into why you feel that way when the facts don't support it.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Biggus Dickus on November 29, 2017, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 28, 2017, 07:14:33 PM
I think she is a bad loser, because she blamed almost everyone and everything for her loss.
- Sexism
- Bernie Saunders and his followers
- Vladimir Putin
- James Comey
- Barack Obama
- The media
- Jill Stein
- White resentment
- etc.

There it is...white resentment.

The "Alt-Right" feel the same way about Hillary, and all women. "They need to be quite, and just shut the fuck up"!

In fact what is strange about the GOP, and Christians, and Nazis is that even though they scream about Muslims, and want to restrict their constitutional rights and even put them into camps. They themselves want pretty much the same thing which the extremist Muslims have in some countries.

Look at Vice President Pence. This dick-wad won't go to lunch or dinner meetings alone with women because, you know the women may attack him or be so scantily dressed that his maleness can't resist so he'll end up sexually assaulting them.

Apparently the new thing with the Alt-Right is, 'WHITE SHARIA'.

You can read about it here.
WHAT IS 'WHITE SHARIA'? ALT-RIGHT BLOGGER DOESN'T WANT WOMEN TO VOTE, DRIVE OR WORK (http://www.newsweek.com/what-white-sharia-and-what-does-it-have-do-americas-sexual-harassment-problem-725163)


Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 29, 2017, 05:39:53 AM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
...
To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
...
Come on, Tom62, don't be shy, don't beat around the bush... :smileshake: Tell us how you really see Hillary Clinton...I don't think you were clear enough.



:grin:

Let's just say that I don't like her at all. I also think that it would be good for everyone if she'd leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: SisterAgatha on December 01, 2017, 04:21:33 PM
For some reason I doubt it will be Elizabeth Warren. She might be right on the economic issues, but she has less charisma or warmth than even Hillary Clinton or Maggie Thatcher. She is like a female version of Michael Dukakis. Or perhaps a female Water Mondale.

Im not saying she is wrong, just she'd have a hard time getting elected.

She is however right or at least convincing on one issue. I read her book and her main thesis is that one of the largest reasons the income inequality gap has been increasing and the middle class shrinking is the lack of government intervention in the lives of businesses/capital.

There was massive government regulation from the end of World War II up until the early 1980s.

It does seem that the "American dream" of owning a home of your own, with a white picket fence and two car garage seems far more unattainable than it used to be..and those in that "American middle class" are at increased risk of losing it all.


Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Magdalena on December 01, 2017, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 29, 2017, 05:39:53 AM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
...
To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
...
Come on, Tom62, don't be shy, don't beat around the bush... :smileshake: Tell us how you really see Hillary Clinton...I don't think you were clear enough.



:grin:

Let's just say that I don't like her at all. I also think that it would be good for everyone if she'd leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.

I don't think Hillary has given me enough reasons to feel that way about her...Trump, on the other hand...Please don't get me started. I wish he would just leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 08:14:49 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on December 01, 2017, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 29, 2017, 05:39:53 AM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
...
To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
...
Come on, Tom62, don't be shy, don't beat around the bush... :smileshake: Tell us how you really see Hillary Clinton...I don't think you were clear enough.



:grin:

Let's just say that I don't like her at all. I also think that it would be good for everyone if she'd leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.

I don't think Hillary has given me enough reasons to feel that way about her...Trump, on the other hand...Please don't get me started. I wish he would just leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.

I think that a lot of people hope that Trump would be impeached, although I rather doubt that this will happen. They tried to do it with Bill Clinton (kinda liked that guy), but failed. I still wonder why nobody wanted J.W. Bush's impeachment. He was the all-time dumbest president (and a war criminal). Nah, I'm afraid  that the USA will still be stuck with Trump for 3 more years.

I fear that, if the democrats doesn't find someone, who isn't like Clinton and who has more qualifications than just being a female and not Donald Trump, Trump will probably be reelected.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Sandra Craft on December 01, 2017, 09:44:19 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 08:14:49 PM

I think that a lot of people hope that Trump would be impeached, although I rather doubt that this will happen. They tried to do it with Bill Clinton (kinda liked that guy), but failed. I still wonder why nobody wanted J.W. Bush's impeachment. He was the all-time dumbest president (and a war criminal). Nah, I'm afraid  that the USA will still be stuck with Trump for 3 more years.

They didn't fail with Bill Clinton, he was impeached.  They just didn't follow it up with a trial, which was just as well because the whole thing was silly from the get-go.

QuoteI fear that, if the democrats doesn't find someone, who isn't like Clinton and who has more qualifications than just being a female and not Donald Trump, Trump will probably be reelected.

Hilary Clinton had qualifications up the wazoo, she was by far one of the most qualified people ever to run for President and that's not just my opinion -- pols from both sides of the aisle said so.  And bear in mind I'm not a particular admirer of Clinton's, but fair is fair.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Magdalena on December 01, 2017, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 08:14:49 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on December 01, 2017, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on December 01, 2017, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 29, 2017, 05:39:53 AM
Quote from: Tom62 on November 29, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
...
To me it does. To me she comes across as a whining, self-pitying, pathetic, little baby who didn't get her cookie  ;)
...
Come on, Tom62, don't be shy, don't beat around the bush... :smileshake: Tell us how you really see Hillary Clinton...I don't think you were clear enough.



:grin:

Let's just say that I don't like her at all. I also think that it would be good for everyone if she'd leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.

I don't think Hillary has given me enough reasons to feel that way about her...Trump, on the other hand...Please don't get me started. I wish he would just leave the political arena and fade into obscurity.

I think that a lot of people hope that Trump would be impeached, although I rather doubt that this will happen. They tried to do it with Bill Clinton (kinda liked that guy), but failed. I still wonder why nobody wanted J.W. Bush's impeachment. He was the all-time dumbest president (and a war criminal). Nah, I'm afraid  that the USA will still be stuck with Trump for 3 more years.

I fear that, if the democrats doesn't find someone, who isn't like Clinton and who has more qualifications than just being a female and not Donald Trump, Trump will probably be reelected.

I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. Maybe Hillary could've won, like you said, "just for being a female," or she lost, "just for being a female."  :sad sigh:
She was more qualified than Trump. (If you're into this sort of thing)--maybe he won "just for being a male." --A dumb male, but still...a male.
Title: Re: Who will save the Democratic Party?
Post by: Davin on December 04, 2017, 02:36:05 PM
We have several Trump appointees, people that worked for him, and continue to work him, who have lied more than one time under oath about talking to Russian agents and/or having financial ties to Russia.

For comparison, Bill Clinton lied under oath about doing something that is legal. People that work for and worked for the self described "bitch" of a president lied under oath about doing illegal things with Russian agents. Also, bitch Turnip had been violating the constitution (emoluments clause at least), ever since he took office.