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Under sea data center eases cooling problem.

Started by Tank, June 06, 2018, 06:28:37 AM

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Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

Well, that's, er, different! But interesting.

One knows what data storage is but, somehow, seeing hundreds of mechanical hard drives (I assume, look too big for SSDs and a little research indicates the 3-4 : 1 price hike/GB is not economic)  being assembled into crates is still a bit of a shock!

Bit of a bind if a disc goes duff, hope there is some redundancy.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Davin

I'm worried about that. I mean the planet is already heating up, and while it will ease the power costs, the additional heat to the oceans seems like a poor long term trade off.

With my limited understanding, this looks like it could help reduce heat generated:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/6/5/17373314/electricity-technology-efficiency-software-waste-3dfs
Quote
"I remember the moment and I get goosebumps," Heuberger recounted to me. "We hooked it up to our system — it took maybe 30 minutes until it was all installed — and [the 3DFS engineer] said 'I'll turn it on now.' Click."

Power consumption dropped by 20 percent, server temperature dropped by 20 degrees, and PQR reached the high 90s.

"I went to my UPS displays, was able to see everything he was seeing, and said, 'Turn it back off,'" Heuberger recalls. "He turned it off, everything went back to crazy, ugly, shitty load distribution."

"We did this a couple of times," he laughs. "I figure ... he cannot manipulate this, right? I said, 'Hey, dude, it looks like it's working!'"
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Tank

Quote from: Davin on June 06, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
I'm worried about that. I mean the planet is already heating up, and while it will ease the power costs, the additional heat to the oceans seems like a poor long term trade off.

With my limited understanding, this looks like it could help reduce heat generated:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/6/5/17373314/electricity-technology-efficiency-software-waste-3dfs
Quote
"I remember the moment and I get goosebumps," Heuberger recounted to me. "We hooked it up to our system — it took maybe 30 minutes until it was all installed — and [the 3DFS engineer] said 'I'll turn it on now.' Click."

Power consumption dropped by 20 percent, server temperature dropped by 20 degrees, and PQR reached the high 90s.

"I went to my UPS displays, was able to see everything he was seeing, and said, 'Turn it back off,'" Heuberger recalls. "He turned it off, everything went back to crazy, ugly, shitty load distribution."

"We did this a couple of times," he laughs. "I figure ... he cannot manipulate this, right? I said, 'Hey, dude, it looks like it's working!'"

It takes energy to remove energy. If the ambient temperature is lower (and a better absorber of heat) then the energy required to maintain an optimum running temperature is less. So system vs system an under sea one is better.

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

Quote from: Davin on June 06, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
I'm worried about that. I mean the planet is already heating up, and while it will ease the power costs, the additional heat to the oceans seems like a poor long term trade off.

With my limited understanding, this looks like it could help reduce heat generated:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/6/5/17373314/electricity-technology-efficiency-software-waste-3dfs
Quote
"I remember the moment and I get goosebumps," Heuberger recounted to me. "We hooked it up to our system — it took maybe 30 minutes until it was all installed — and [the 3DFS engineer] said 'I'll turn it on now.' Click."

Power consumption dropped by 20 percent, server temperature dropped by 20 degrees, and PQR reached the high 90s.

"I went to my UPS displays, was able to see everything he was seeing, and said, 'Turn it back off,'" Heuberger recalls. "He turned it off, everything went back to crazy, ugly, shitty load distribution."

"We did this a couple of times," he laughs. "I figure ... he cannot manipulate this, right? I said, 'Hey, dude, it looks like it's working!'"
I think this is going to be one very complex subject! Before hitting the submersible units for heating up the water wevwould need to know how much energy they save (on AC plant) versus how much heat equivalent power stations (and many use river and sea water for cooling) would produce doing the same thing. Plus those convereion and transmission losses of course!)

Accodring to interviews on BBC World Service the local partner company already produces a surplus of renewable energy, which is one one the reasons that area was chosen. So, mininal transmission losses/costs.

I can hope to see it becoming a combined effort in the end - bringing the best arts of all of these people together in the same place at the same time! Maybe use some of the heat for marine farming?

I am always pissed off by that old-school attitude of, "I was taught this and have taught it back for the past 40 years, it must be valid, my career is built on it!" 

On another energy front, storage, a UK company is building a plant to experiment with liquifying air using "surplus" energy, then driving turbines by evaporating it at need. Wonder if they can hang a few Sterling engines and Peltier devices round it, built it next to a plant that has waste heat . . .

Even in energy one organisation's waste can be another's bonus - just need to get them together. But, with politics, commercial profit, personal greed etc it's probably a (heat)pipe dream.

Unless the likes of Google's parent company or Elon Musk takes the challenge on of course.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Davin

Quote from: Tank on June 06, 2018, 05:03:52 PM
Quote from: Davin on June 06, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
I'm worried about that. I mean the planet is already heating up, and while it will ease the power costs, the additional heat to the oceans seems like a poor long term trade off.

With my limited understanding, this looks like it could help reduce heat generated:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/6/5/17373314/electricity-technology-efficiency-software-waste-3dfs
Quote
"I remember the moment and I get goosebumps," Heuberger recounted to me. "We hooked it up to our system — it took maybe 30 minutes until it was all installed — and [the 3DFS engineer] said 'I'll turn it on now.' Click."

Power consumption dropped by 20 percent, server temperature dropped by 20 degrees, and PQR reached the high 90s.

"I went to my UPS displays, was able to see everything he was seeing, and said, 'Turn it back off,'" Heuberger recalls. "He turned it off, everything went back to crazy, ugly, shitty load distribution."

"We did this a couple of times," he laughs. "I figure ... he cannot manipulate this, right? I said, 'Hey, dude, it looks like it's working!'"

It takes energy to remove energy. If the ambient temperature is lower (and a better absorber of heat) then the energy required to maintain an optimum running temperature is less. So system vs system an under sea one is better.
The metal that heats up does transfer to water more efficiently than it does to air, it is a more efficient process. I am concerned however, with the next stage. Liquids cool slower on their own than gases. With a hot spot in gas, it spreads more quickly and on its own cannot maintain a warmer temperature than the rest for long. Liquids dissipate the heat slower and can maintain their heat for longer. So while I agree that the first stage, the cooling of the equipment is more efficient and uses less energy, the second stage may not prove as beneficial overall.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.